Legs going back

[dalesponyrider]

This is probably a bit of a long shot as very few of you have seen me ride but I am puzzling over a problem in my riding. (I have had a few "glasses" to drown my Welsh sorrows so please excuse me!)

As many of you know, I have been off riding for a couple of years after a nasty accident but am now getting back into regular riding on the lovely Saturn. Things have been going very well and I am getting my confidence back. I am having to do lots of physio on my hips and groin as they are still a bit damaged but physically things are improving.

I have been taking things pretty slowly but am now being put under a bit more pressure in my lessons as my confidence increases. The latest problem is that as I use my leg, it travels back and my toes (especially my right) point down. Now Saturn is a LOT slimmer than D and I seem to have a bit of a problem using my calf as his sides are just not as easy to reach!

I have had a bit more success today as I forgot about my feet/heels and just concentrated on relaxing my knees. I have no idea why this helped. I also found that as I relaxed my knees my rein contact improved and became more elastic.

First, can anyone give me any tips on how to keep my legs forward and heels down. (I have ridden in HM saddles most of my riding life so I don't think it's a stirrup bar problem.)

Second, can anyone explain WHY when I relaxed my knees, my heels sometimes lowered and my rein contact improved, as I like to understand what is going on.

[dalesponyrider]

Piccy from lesson - it's embarrassing it's so bad! Sat was brill though!


Piccy from today that doesn't actually show my knees but thing a bit better??

[harveydales]

Well, when you release your knees, you will naturally send your centre of gravity slightly back so you are sitting a bit more on your seat bones and so your legs will come slightly forwards. It's just body mechanics - try doing it sitting on a chair. I think it is a twofold problem. Firstly, to get lower leg contact on a narrower pony is not easy and the easier way out is to tip slightly forwards and let the lower leg slip slightly back (and it is only slight differences I'm talking about and it is a problem I have with Harvey). Also, it is a natural reaction to grip slightly with your knees when a bit insecure/unsure which will have the same result.

I strongly believe part of the problem is down to how we are individually built - width and angle between seatbones etc. Some people are built to fall into a chair seat easily and others (like you and me) are built to fall onto our forks/leg back easily. We can work on releasing our knees and shortening stirups etc but to some extent we will always be what we are and so long as we are secure in the saddle and our ponies are happy and understand what we want, surely it is OK. (I've had a few too many glasses of wine so please excuse me too! ;D)

[SuzieP]

Hi Linda - my instructor tells me that if I relax my knees my heel will drop naturally.

BTW - tell me to mind my own business.....but are the trotting poles a bit far apart for Sat? When I put poles out for Bea they are 4 and a bit of my feet (size 5) apart......

[kestrel]

i get told to relax my knees constantly, apparently it encourages the muscles to lenghten and the the follow effect is to encourage your heels to drop....
i dont really understand it, but it seems to work, also apparently by tightening your knees you can block the horses movement...

[Anna]

Linda, its hard to tell from those photos but I would be inclined to put your stirrups up a couple of holes, it can make your lower leg unstable if you have them too long so by doing that you may find your lower leg can stay in the right place easier? Its a case of experimenting though and seeing.

[olivia]

Hi Linda,

I've also found thinking "toes up" rather than "heals down" allows me to think about where my feet are without creating the tension that "heals down" does (which of course makes your heals come up even further!)

Olivia

[Deleted]

Hi
I agree with Anna, your stirrups look a tad to long. Try taking them up a hole or two and see if it helps.

[greydales]

I think that by relaxing your knees you are automatically releasing the tension in your calf muscles which allows your heel to drop? If you relaxed in the leg then you probably relaxed elsewhere in your body allowing you to become more supple and able to follow the movement.

If you tend to tip forward (which you look like you are in the first pic) - and aren't very mobile in your hips and/or have a stiff back that might have the effect of pushing your legs back especially with Heather's saddles and their set back stirrup bars. As Anna says if your stirrup leathers are too long (and if I remember rightly you do tend to ride quite long?) you will be reaching for the stirrups and it will be harder to keep your legs still. It could be you are unconsciously still trying to protect your groin and that will create tension.

I have the opposite problem of sitting too much in a chair seat, due to years and years of saddles putting me in that position .

Also the more secure and independent your seat, the less you will rely on your legs and hands for balance and you should be able to keep them more still and in the correct position. However it does get harder as we get older and start to seize up everywhere LOL!!

[mickey]

You look to have very long stirrups- 2nd pic you look to be reaching for them which will put your toes down heels up. Try experimenting and altering them. If you tense your knee it will bring your leg back- sit on the floor with legs straight and try tensing your knee- it automatically wants to rise bringing the heel down into the floor and up towards you.
Have you done any work without stirrups? How does that go?

[dalesponyrider]

If I work without stirrups I feel my leg lengthen. I haven't done much of it though as I'm trying to be a bit careful with my groin injuries. (I had a bilateral chronic problem due to D's width and me ignoring the warning signs as I was enjoying myself too much!) Things are improving in that dept though so maybe I should do a bit more work without stirrups now that I am learning to trust Saturn!

[jec248]

I have been reading this thread with interest. My legs also go back (heels up) and I tip forward slightly. I am only aware of this when I am told or when I see photos of myself. I look as though I need a first put onto my chest and pushed back about 3-6 inches!!! Years ago I used to ride in the chair position, and was constantly told to put my legs back. I lengthened my stirrups and made a conscious effort to ride in the correct position, but I've got it wrong and can't get it right. My legs are now too far back. I ride in a Heather Moffett saddle.

[southerner]

It may be that when you are sitting in an HM saddle you are not getting the support you need to help with your injuries. It looks like you are riding too long, and protecting your groin area by tipping forward, which will shoot your leg back and toes down. See if you can sit upright and put stirrups up to help you protect that groin area. try and borrow a mega supportive saddle for a lesson and see if that helps. I have had a back injury and shudder thinking of riding in a HM at the moment!

[AliandDolly]

I have the same problem as you Linda my legs go back and toes tip down however i have found that it is better and worse on different horses for example they are quite bad on Harvey which Tanya picks up on and the same on Boogaloo at the riding school however when i ride marcie i find them better.
I find that i can relax my knee more and that helps with the heels. My riding teacher at the school tells me too think lean back slightly which pushes your leg forward slightly and heels down and stretch my leg down more. I would suggest putting your stirrups up too but then if you put them up too much the same problem occurs as when they are too long.

I hope this helps im halof asleep sorry if it sound like a load of babble lol

alixx

[dalesponyrider]

I have shortened my stirrups one hole and I think it has helped. Reading back though the answers on here (thank you guys) I might try them up another hole just to see. Part of the problem is that D used to have a very different trot to Saturn and I got very used to it. It was very easy to sit to whereas Saturn is very up and down and catapults me out of the saddle! He has a lovely Dales trot though!

With my stirrups up a hole or two, it helps but then I don't feel as though I've got enough leg wrapped round him when he spooks! I will just have to keep experimenting until I get the right length.