Foal Immuno-Deficiency Syndrome

[dalesponyrider]

I am starting this thread to try and get some discussion going about Foal Immuno-Deficiency syndrome, formally known as Fell Foal Sydrome. This is a genetic problem that has sadly been found in our Dales breed. The syndrome was first identified in Fell ponies.

Jo Ashby made the problem public knowledge in the Dales Despatch this Autumn.

For those of you that haven't had access to the article - the facts are, that foal immuno-deficiency syndrome is caused by a recessive gene and at the moment, there is no way of telling whether a pony carries this gene or not. The only way to tell, is if a syndrome foal is produced, then this means that both the parents must be carriers.

If a foal has immuno-deficiency syndrome it is always fatal, as the affected foal has no functioning immune system.

There has only been one confirmed case. For this poor foal, the first signs were of a foal who seemed very normal and did well for the first 10 days, then started to have persistent diarrhoea. Treatment was administered for some days, but to no avail, the foal was put to sleep and syndrome confirmed at post-mortem. This is the very first case ever confirmed in a purebred Dales pony.

A PhD student at the Animal Health Trust is working on developing a carrier test. This is Laura Fox-Clipsham and she is working under the direction of Dr. June Swinburne of the AHT and Prof. Stuart Carter of Leahurst. Prof. Carter has a lot of knowledge of both breeds and the respective bloodlines and has assessed that the number of carriers in Dales may be as low as 8%. In comparison, the prevalence of the recessive gene in the Fell is thought to be over 70%. The fact is, we don't actually know the prevalence of carriers as the test isn't developed yet.

I have submitted a question to the AGM asking for an extraordinary general meeting with one or more experts available at this meeting, someone like Professor Carter for example, to answer questions from the membership?

I have had lots of questions crossing my mind such as:

* When will a test be available for our ponies?

* How on earth do we KNOW how widespread it is without testing?

* Which ponies will the council recommend are tested?

* Or will it be totally voluntary?

* Is the aim to eradicate it or just to prevent dead foals?

* What is the cost of the test likely to be?

I'm sure there are many other questions in member's minds that I haven't thought of as well.

So, I've started this thread to open up discussion about this issue as I feel it is REALLY important that all of us are aware of the facts and have as much available information to hand so that we can make informed decisions. I know there are members of this board that know a lot about this issue and can make a positive contribution.

The most important aim should be to preserve our precious Dales Pony breed and to take action to eradicate this syndrome in a sensible informed way for the good of the breed.

[zeldalithgow]

Well Done Linda, I was thinking of starting a thread myself, you have put it far better than I could.

I would hope that the plan is to try and eradicate the problem if at all possible, especially if it is thought that the number of carriers is low, but given the rarity of the breed maybe not breeding from the carriers is not such a good plan

I was also wondering if we could do some fund raising to help

[greydales]

My thoughts on the subject are that it would be detrimental to stop breeding - as there is no carrier test then we have absolutely no way of knowing for certain which stallions/mares may be carriers and at present the only way to confirm this is by having a post mortem done on a dead foal which presented symptoms similar to the syndrome.

However there lies the rub - will all breeders be responsible enough to have their foals tested? We would hope so but if some breeders did not it will make the problem much harder to control/eradicate, until a carrier test is available. And then, we would have to rely on the honesty of breeders to have their breeding stock tested.

If Prof. Carter has assessed that the prevalence of carriers may be as low as 8% - has he also assessed which individuals may be affected? Should this knowledge be made public? Or as it is purely theoretical at this stage would that be unfair? It's undoubtedly a very contentious issue ....

[cadeby]

As a biologist (albeit a marine one ) I am interested to know how Professor Carter has assessed the carrier level within the dales breed to be 8%? I presume this must be a statistical analysis? However, I am slightly concerned at this figure as I believe that several of the northern breeders with multiple broodmares do not always register all of their foals (due to disquiet since the introduction of micro-chipping). Therefore, if some of these undocumented foals had died at 2-3 months of age, there would be absolutely no record of the fact. How often do we hear on the grapevine that "so-and-so has lost a foal" as "it just didn't do well".

I think until we have a carrier test, we have to keep breeding as normal but all breeders need to have an open and honest policy.
Once we have a carrier test, I believe that all stallions should be obliged to be tested so that mare-owners can make an informed choice. If the carrier-level really is as low as 8%, then hopefully we won't lose too many important bloodlines from the genetic base?

Re. funding - do we have any idea how much money needs to be generated to try and enable a carrier test to be discovered? I would imagine it's a considerable sum and that hundreds of thousands have been spent on behalf of the Fell Society already? Can we as concerned owners realistically help with the costs? For example, even if every breeder voluntarily donated say £50 to the Society on the sale of each foal, would this help or would it be just a drop in the ocean? As Linda says, these are all questions that can only be answered by the DPS, so I agree with her idea that an Extraordinary AGM should be held. in-depth information is the key here.

I would just like to add that a great debt is owed to the owner of this poor foal who at great heart-ache and considerable personal expense strove for a diagnosis

..and credit to the owners of the stallion who acted quickly and responsibly in having him gelded.

Through their combined actions we do at least have a chance of finding a solution to this problem.

Helen

Edited for typos

[ccc]

As an owner of a possible carrier colt this is my understanding of what is going to happen.

BUT please note I think that questions would be better asked of Jo Ashbyand the DPS council!

The carrier test: it is hoped that this will be available in the next 12 to 18 months.

It is VERY important for the breed as a whole to keep breeding!

The 8% comes from looking at the possible bloodlines involved and as with each carrier there is only 50% chance that it will pass on this gene it is hoped that it is not widespread in the Dales herd.

Once the test becomes available it is my understanding that it will form part of the stallion licencing policy and that existing stallions will also be tested.

I do not believe that mare owners will be asked to test their stock.

The most important thing is not to panic! This is the first confirmed case so please keep breeding!

Clair

[greydales]

Just a comment on having stallions tested and not mares - if mares are not required to be tested, how are you going to know if a potential mating might be between two carriers? There might be a stallion who is a carrier, but who has very good bloodlines and could be mated to a non-carrier mare. But if you don't know if your mare is a carrier or not, then you might choose not to use this stallion although it might compliment your mare well.

[dalesponyrider]

You are right Gill, we don't want to reduce the gene pool so much that we end up getting other problems from in breeding. I wonder if one answer might be to test foals that are up for registration, excluding those that are proved to be carriers? That way, all the present carriers could continue to be bred from, keeping the gene pool as wide as possible, but making sure that the carriers are excluded from future breeding.

[cadeby]

Nov 5, 2008 8:27:04 GMT -1 ccc said:

The most important thing is not to panic! This is the first confirmed case so please keep breeding!

I think with the current down-turn in the economic climate we are going to see a significant reduction in the number of foals being produced. Therefore, as Clair says, it is VITAL that we don't allow concerns over FIDS to reduce the numbers even more

We must strive for the carrier test and take it from there.....

[ccc]

Carrier stallions will not be licenced and proven carrier mares will also be presumably removed from breeding programes.

It is important not to sensationalise this, considereing the closesness of the breed to the Fell it was only a matter of time before it was found in the Dales too and probably other breeds too.

www.horsetrust.org.uk/Doc_News.aspx?id=0182228e-0c0d-4b56-b808-399724fd38f4

With regard to funding, it is best left to the research organisations to sort as you are talking hundereds of thousands of pounds of funding, unless you know a willing millionaire

If our colt is a carrier he will be gelded.

IMHO it would be better to lose the odd bloodline that to perpetuate this syndrome, but bearing in mind it is not thought to be endemic in the Dales population we are not going to lose any bloodlines.

[ccc]

Forgot to add, Stallions have a far greater ~17% contribution to the gene pool whereas if you consider the number of foals a mare may have their contributions is far less. On this basis if the carrier stallions can be identified an removed, it would be hoped that the syndrome would be diluted and removed over time.

[SuzieP]

I'm so glad this thread has been started and the subject has been opened up for discussion. Thank you, Linda.

I'm at work at the mo so can't take the time to respond at length - but will when I have time.

Could we pin this thread please, mods?

[dalesponyrider]

Claire, could you please clarify what you mean by 17%? I don't understand what you are saying here. This is where I need someone to explain in clear terms the genetics and probabilities. Maths is not my strong point! If stallions have a 17% contribution to the gene pool, what percentage do mares have? Surely it is more?

[harveydales]

Thanks for starting this thread.

I don't understand what is meant by 17% contribution either but I do see that stallions will have a huge contribution compared to mares to the general gene pool as there are relatively few stallions compared to mares.

I will also reply in length when i have more time this evening. I do feel the 8% may turn out to be an underestmate as it is presumeabley calculted from the bloodlines of the 2 known carriers and hasn't had anything factored in to account for unreported/unknown foal deaths due to the syndrome?

I also would like to say we owe a lot to the owners of the 2 known carriers for bringing this all out in the open despite the heartache and anxiety they must have been going through. No, we don't need to panic but we mustn't hide our heads under a stone. I am in favour of an extraordinary GM with Prof Carter and/or his associates attending. Until we know for certain how prevelent this recessive gene is it will be difficult to pick the right course of action.

[ccc]

Linda,

Its down to the number of foals that a stallion can sire over his lifetime compared with the number of foals a mare can produce in her lifetime.

For example Stoneriggs Alick sired 117 foals, whereas most mares will produce less than 10 foals, so her contribution to the toatl gene pool is much less.

[dalesponyrider]

Right, I think I may see where my confusion lies. I was thinking of stallions as a whole, but Claire is talking about an individual stallion?