Confused

[corabella]

Apologies if my comments are naive and I do not want to offend anyone. Is the approach to feeding & hoof care put forward in Paddock Paradise (keep moving on internal track, feed hay/forage, & barefoot trim) not considered seriously in this country? It is an attempt to keep as near to the lifestyle of a 'wild' horse and avoids long periods standing either in field or stable - concentrating on stimulating constant movement. Is it unachievable or just another American fad or what? Are most horses through necessity kept in yards where there is no alternative to inactivity and starvation or inappropriate feeding? Is it vested interests of the veterinary/farriery/livery industries? Why are so many horses lame when we are supposed to care for them and give them a good life?

[SuzieP]

This is a controversial subject and it's almost impossible to discuss it without offending someone.

Lameness has always happened, but these days there are many more options open to us than there have ever been. So a lame horse - instead of being shot as would have happened years ago when horses were work animals rather than pleasure animals as the majority are today - receives vet care and owners do all they can to try and get their horse sound. The result is that there are more lame horses around being cared for.

Some horses aren't suitable for the job they're being asked to do, or don't receive adequate specialised care to enable them to do what's asked of them. It is of great credit to Ellen Whittaker that she retired her elderly speed horse Kanselier at 18 because he has suffered ligament injury and she doesn't want him to break down. It is also of credit to her that he's lasted this long, most speed horses don't.

I also feel that there is too much indiscriminate breeding and some owners breed from mares, which have an unsoundness or weakness, rather than make the very hard decision to put them down or retire them. The weakness is passed on and so we go.....

The sort of horse lifestyle you're researching is admirable and may well be a very good method for keeping horses in a way which is closest to their "natural" lifestyle - and it may in turn result in your horses staying sound and slim and healthy. Of course, if you buy a horse with a congenital weakness, it may not stay sound, whatever you do.

[harveydales]

Very interesting. I do agree with Sue over the question as to why there are so many lame horses around today. As little as 15 to 20 years ago a horse would be pts if it were lame and unable to do the job it was bred for. I think it is a sign that we are a wealthier society (what ever we may think) that we are able to keep unsound horses going longer in the role of companion etc. So long as the horse's pain can be controlled and he is happy in his role then that is fine imo (you can be lame but not in much pain as I well know myself).

The other thing to consider is that these days we don't work our horses nearly as hard as we used to and this will be contributing to the obesity/lami type problems often seen.

The paddock Paradise system has a lot going for it but, unfortunately, we are a small and crowded country so not many people have the land to manage a system like this. I never forget how fortunate I am to be able to keep my ponies on a similar type of system.

[corabella]

The track system does not need a lot of land - according to Jaime Jackson it can be applied to any acreages of over 1 and his example in the book is 4 acres. Perhaps it challenges the conventional image of horses in a nice fenced green field?

[SuzieP]

Perhaps. But remember that not many of us are fortunate enough to own our own land, or even to rent land where we can have a free hand in its husbandry. And even if we did, there has to be room for each individual to evaluate new ideas and choose what best suits their circumstances and the needs of their horses without feeling that they are somehow doing the wrong thing by choosing to stick with "convention".

The same issues arise with training methods and techniques - I don't think any one method has ALL the answers. Just as no one method of horse husbandry or management holds all the answers for every single horse either.

[Anna]

Not being totally au-fait wiht the paddock paradise system but have seen one (lucys!) in action and I don't dislike it at all, it works for Lucy and thats all that matters.

It would be totally unpractical for us with 32 horses to run all 100 or so acres like this (Can you imagine, it would be like a wild-prarie land!!). However! we do run 6 horses across say 10 acres of proper hill with stream in the middle etc (natural environment or as good as its gonna get round at ours) and they are very interesting to watch as a herd behaviour, they never constantly move around the field as such, they spend a week in one area, then a week in the next etc etc rotating around the field on a much larger scale than daily activity, yes there is movement to the water trough (or stream) and up for their breakfast) but wtihint that week they more often than not will return to the same area they were grazing before. The horses themselves can manage the grass far better than we could doign strip grazing etc. We keep weight down by having a good amount of horses on the land and sending sheep in ahead if the grass gets too much. We clear the poo and worm count nowadays rather than chemical wormers and it seems to work well for us. I wouldn't want any bigger groups than that, the herd dynamics get too fierce and with too many dominant mares vying for top dog you can run into problems there especially with regular feeding as we do.

As ever, it is what is practical for you and your system. Alongside of about 3 fields run like the above, we have 5 stallion half-acre paddocks where the horses keep a much more "conventional" system of coming in and out each day and then a couple of medium sized fields which are just run like grass-fields, nothing exciting, horses graze in them. Its just how the land is laid out and how the fields are run, i don't think we have any more lamness than any yard and (touch wood) haven't had any case of laminitis is years and years in any horse on the premises on any of the systems of fields.

[corabella]

Thank you again for the very thoughtful responses to my comments - which I must conclude were naive and reflect my lack of experience of this or indeed any system in practice. However I am very keen to learn!

[SuzieP]

And all credit to you for researching the best ways to keep your ponies. They'll be very lucky to get a home with you.

[harveydales]

I've found this thread very interesting. It's always good to rethink what you do and why. I'm always open to new ideas.

[Deleted]

I think the Paddock Paradise system very interesting but very difficult to copy on much UK land as most tracks would quickly turn in to a mud bath.
I rent 10 acres of rough unimproved grazing which is horseshoe shaped and takes 20 mins to walk from one end to the other, there is usually somewhere to get out of the wind or somewhere to stand to get moving air when insects are bad
I bring sheep in to graze during summer as there is too much grass for 3, I think both they and the horses find the mix of grasses, plants and bushes interesting.

[Fi]

I like the sound of your unimproved grazing, benjamin79. So much of the grazing we end up using has been sown and improved for bovine needs, not equines. I once read that horses have been successful as a species because they could gain nourishment form grazing that was too poor for other species.