mounting and broncing

[ponylass]

Hello everyone,

I haven't posted for quite a while, but lurk around reading a lot of threads which are interesting, i thought i should come out of the woodwork more often so here i am....with a question about....broncing and mounting. Hmm....
My young lad (rising 6), is very expressive and when i'm riding, mainly in my little outdoor 'school' (electric tape in a square in the corner of a field) as I'm trying to get him fit, he broncs when he first comes in to the school, his legs get away with him a bit and he flings himself about for a few seconds while I'm trying to get some control of his head and body with my legs/voice etc before we settle down into some walk and trot. He does this now every time he canters, so i've stopped going fast as I'm not really sure of the cause. He's ridden in a barefoot treeless. He enjoys trotting alot and i don't need to nag him round the school. A lack of balance or growth spurt making him unco-ordinated perhaps?

Another thing which may be connected?? - he is TERRIBLE for not standing still for me to get on, he's round in circles and walking backwards, all sorts. I'm due a lesson with my instructor soon, but in the meantime i'm trying to break it down and reward/praise him at each stage but as soon as he hears the chair i use for mounting coming close he starts to fidget. A baby thing which he will grow out of??

Just wondering if anyone has any experience of these things?

Thank you!xx

[NFK Dumpling]

I think you are doing the right thing in correcting him otherwise how will he know he is supposed to stand still.

Do you consistently use a word - such as "stand" so he knows what you mean?

James was a fidget when I got him aged 10yrs and even now has the odd day where he won't standstill aged 22yrs. I have gone to mount and slid down his neck onto the ground and once or twice missed altogether.

[ponylass]

Thank NFK, yes i do try to use quite clear words, and do every thing in a sequence, i'm not trying to get on in different places each time a ride, but i do think he's got into a habit of this and i'm wondering how to break that habit, the other problem perhaps is that i'm probably a bit slow at getting on to, i don't want to fling myself on as like you i don't want to end up sliding down his neck or something!!

[Anna]

Can you get someone to help you? Its the one thing I really do insist on even if someone has to hold the youngsters head whilst they get used to the moutning and unmounting, if you can break the old habit of moving off when you're getting on and set a new habit of standning still with someone holding him still then he'll get used to it. I'm slow getting on at times (mainly since I went right over the other side :rollseyes: onto my head) and they have to learnt to wait. With the real babies we'll often have someone stand the other side to start with so they get used to waiting until they are told to move off.

Regarding the broncing when you first get on, to me it almost sounds like an unwanted habit, its ok for them to be fresh when you first get on but I think you might just have to be a bit tougher and absolutly insist he starts off quietly, by all means move straight into trot so you are going forward and then come back to doing some walk work once you've settled but keep half halting and put in small circles, transitions, anything so he focuses on you. You are going to have to be a bit tough and stick it out, its a pretty standard youngster thing to want to do but needs nipping in the bud now.

He is young so the bucking into canter is also very typical of an unbalanced baby, try to ask coming out of the corner and do straight lines but if he bucks it can just be him sorting his legs out however don't pull him up, keep your legs on and continue to ask him to canter until he settles. If you pull him up the minute he bucks he'll learn that that is what he is "meant" to do and it can leave to bother. Can you canter him in the field as opposed to your school on a straight line to start with and lift your weight off his back a bit and let him sort his legs out without you interfering too much but do insist he keeps going and then when he's settle you ask him to come back to trot quietly.

Hope that makes some sense.

[ponylass]

Thanks Anna,

He's only just starting doing the whole broncing thing,it's not when i first mount, it's when we go into the school. i first thought it was just a form of napping, that he didn't want to work, but i do get him settled down quickly, the problem is that i fell off a couple of times in the field, which is why i've tried to take things slower for a while as i don't want him to think he can use broncing to get rid of me?!
He's very good at listening in the school/outside and puts his ears back onto me a lot, so our communication seems great when we've got going, and he quite happily trots, so isn't really lazy.. so i'm a bit confused.

I usually get my dad or fiance to help hold of his head collar, but was on my own today. I'm having a lesson later this week so see what happens then too. Ahh, it feels like with him if it's not one thing it's another......

[mickey]

If its a case of him needing to get rid of some excess energy have you tried 5 mins lunging before riding? We did this with Rory- initially he would explode then settle, over time he started not to explode every time and now Lu just gets straight on.
He does also stand to get on now, he tried reversing at one point so he got backed up to a fence and had someone holding him.
He also does the buck into canter routine- we got someone more experienced to get on and ride through it and he's been loads better, plus its shown Lu he wont carry on bucking.
Rory is 5

[ponylass]

Jun 6, 2011 17:44:22 GMT -1 mickey said:

If its a case of him needing to get rid of some excess energy have you tried 5 mins lunging before riding? We did this with Rory- initially he would explode then settle, over time he started not to explode every time and now Lu just gets straight on.
He does also stand to get on now, he tried reversing at one point so he got backed up to a fence and had someone holding him.
He also does the buck into canter routine- we got someone more experienced to get on and ride through it and he's been loads better, plus its shown Lu he wont carry on bucking.
Rory is 5

Thank you Mickey! Sonny does the reversing trick too, normally I have someone hold him but today i was alone, however will go back to basics i think with that again. At least I know he sounds fairy normal! I haven't done any lunging, up until now i haven't really needed to. He's been such a moose today generally, a bit stroppy, a bit opinionated.

[heathera]

If they won't stand for mounting I school that until they do and don't do anything else.

What I do is teach them to line them selves up with the mounting block first. This involves them being able to do one step at a time and move their bottom sideways towards you.

Then I have them stand there while I mess about with the girth, stirrups, lean over and gently tap the offside of the girth with my hand and accidentally 'catch' their bottom with my hands a few times as if my leg has caught them as it goes over.

If a rider is fit and able enough it can be good to then move to putting one foot in the stirrup and standing in that with your hip pushed onto the saddle so you're standing in the nearside stirrup, your weight over them so the saddle doesn't slip and facing forward. I appreciate not everyone can do this.

At each stage when they have stood still for me to do what I set out to do two to three times in a row I get down off the mounting block and finish for that session.

Then we go to me actually mounting and sitting there and them staying still while I fiddle with girth straps, stirrups or just quietly admire the view for a minute.

Then I dismount and repeat the whole thing until they are absolutely solid on standing still to be mounted. I love the light bulb that goes on when they realise that standing still is easier and less work than moving and fidgeting.

At each stage if they do as I ask then we stop for that session. You could do four or five short sessions in a day over a weekend to train this if you have the chance to. Breaking it up like this teaches them that being mounted doesn't mean hard work every time and that you won't stay up there forever. they also learn that various evasions won't work as you can quietly work through them.

With regard to the bucking going into canter it's usually a balance thing. Is your ground really hard following the dry weather where you are? That could be making it more difficult or harder work for him. He might be slipping a little bit on the grass in the transition and bucking to regain his balance.

How fit is he and what's his usual workload? When was his saddle last checked? When Drummer was this age we had the same problem, his saddle theoretically fitted but he didn't like cantering in it. Once we moved to a saddle with Flair panels he never bucked from being unbalanced ever again.

There's also a difference between what I would call, 'Oh be Joyful' bucks and 'unbalanced and sorting feet out' bucks. On rare occasions I have experienced, 'you can b***y well get off NOW' bucks but they have a whole different feel to them.

With regard to the oh be joyfuls what i found helped was to make sure you have a collected trot before asking, ask with the lightest aid you can, make sure you are sitting nice and upright and looking ahead and then go two point in the saddle but with a rein contact still as soon as the transition occurs.

With the unbalanced ones do the same but stay sitting lightly upright and think of drawing your belly button back to your spine and imagine that drawing his withers up and putting weight on his bottom. That will help him keep his balance.

If you think they are the last type of 'GET OFF NOW' bucks then you probably need a professional rider/instructor to help as it's important to identify why he feels he needs to be rid of his rider and to help him work through that.

[Deleted]

My 5 yr old went through a stage of not standing to be mounted! I tried everything! patience, patience, pateince!! lol, my instructor suggested someone hold his head and give him a sugar lump! not something I particularly like to do, but it gave him something to think about, and the sugar dissolved slowly on his tougue!, after a couple of times, he now stands quietly, now ocasionally i will keep one in my pocket and reach down and give him the treat, just as a reminder!!! it worked for me! I agree about the saddle and his back! or perhaps teeth!?

[ponylass]

Thank you heathera for the detailed reply there, i have a lesson due with my instructor and i think i will ask her to help me break it down and due similar to what you've done, i'm riding in a treeless saddle which seems fine, but maybe i will look into getting his backed checked, maybe he's having a growth spurt and is finding it hard to keep himself together, or maybe he's just testing me...hmmm.
Thanks coops, i get someone to give him treats and he had been standing fairly quietly, but as soon as he knows i'm on my own it's more fidgeting, so need to go back to basics i think.

[greydales]

Bucking can be a sign of many different things, such as excitement, being unbalanced, discomfort.

If one of mine bucked I would first of all discount all the physical things that might be an issue. If they are young/green it's often due to excitement and/or lack of balance. My 7 year old mare Cherry has often bucked into canter, she's not being naughty but telling me she finds it hard to do - the left rein in particular. I'm finding that regular schooling is slowly improving things as she builds up the muscle to carry herself properly.

My young Lipizzaner mare Remy will usually bronc when first worked, with her it's an excitement thing! I lunge her first to get all the excess energy as I can't sit to her broncing, and then she's usually good as gold.

Another of my horses is quite sensitive in his back and if he is in any discomfort will tell me by bucking or broncing me off . With him it means he is is pain, I was unceremoniously dumped a couple of times but I subsequently found out his saddle was causing him great problems.

If you are convinced it's not a physical thing then I would lunge him first and see what he's like afterwards. Small bucks can be worked through but if they mean business it's best not to risk it!

[dalesponyrider]

D used to be a bit of a bugger about standing. I had to do lots on my own so I used to go armed with polos broken into quarters. She would do anything for a polo! I just lined her up and asked her to stand still while I got on the block. She got a polo if she stood, nothing if she didn't and I went back to square one. I just broke it down into small steps and gradually built it up, always going back to square one if she moved at all. Eventually she was rock solid.

[ponylass]

Thanks again for more comments, i'm not about the saddle it's a barefoot treeless and he's fine in walk and trot and doesn't react when i first get on, seems quite content, so not sure how to tell if it is the saddle? i'm not as tense in a treeless as i find the gp treed ones with knee rolls are crippling for me for some reason i just can't relax. hmm will see, but it could be feeling unbalanced he seems to have a bit of a high bum...
I am starting to chunk down the getting on issue, but using the chair i use for mounting to stand on to brush him and praising him when he stood still, hopefully i will crack that one soon...