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Post by harleydales on Sept 27, 2011 10:02:07 GMT -1
I had the vet out today to have a look at old Apollo, and while he was out took him to see Harley and grilled him at length (the vet, not Harley  I told him about Harley's lack of 'stamina and energy' which is how I was seeing it - but he thinks it's NOT that; it's simply that his muscles don't function like they should, or like they used to. The reason he thinks that is because after exercise Harley's heart rate comes straight back down quickly, which shows that his cardio vascular system is working, that he is bodily fit, and that he has no pain (all of which are good). If the heart rate stayed elevated we'd be looking at other issues. He doesn't think increasing the oil or feed is the answer, it's just a case of taking it very steadily, and gradually re-training the muscles to do hills - instead of trying to go up hills in trot, which I used to do as a good fittener, just to do a quarter of the hill in trot, then a third, then half etc etc and see if that works. Or simply walk him up the hills and then go for it on the flat bits - might work. Overall he was pleased with how Harley looks and could see that his muscles were building up quite nicely. |
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Post by harveydales on Sept 27, 2011 11:29:19 GMT -1
That's interesting, Jane, and good news that his muscles are building up nicely. At least you have a manageable fittening plan and you know he isn't in any sort of pain. I always used to trot Harvs up hills too which he'd do effortlessly but maybe I'll have to have a more cautious approach to fittening now too.
I had wondered whether I should be feeding more oil but don't want to because harvey is fat enough as it is. I can't quite get my head around this change of diet thing with EPSM. I keep him on as little starch/sugar as possibe and always have done.
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Post by valerie n scout on Sept 27, 2011 12:28:14 GMT -1
am plesed the vet is happy with Harley Jane, he's a lovely boy XXX
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Post by harleydales on Sept 27, 2011 12:41:23 GMT -1
Harley gets between 100 and 120ml of oil depending on work load - but I increase the Winergy Low just before a big (8 miles plus) ride, and increase the oil afterwards, just for a couple of days. It's a fine line between enough and too much!
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Post by harveydales on Oct 9, 2011 5:21:54 GMT -1
I've just reread this thread again and it has stopped me getting too despondent about Harvey - thanks Jane.  When the vets (2 of them) came the other week they said Harvey still wasn't stepping through fully on his right hind. I wasn't too worried at the time as his muscle enzymes are still improving. I am only doing steady walk with him and he is definately not his bouncy, forward self going up or down hills - unles something happens to wind him up. I am sure he is not in pain, just hasn't got the muscle stamina. He had 4 days off while I had a stomach bug and when I rode him yesterday, he seemed to be taking smaller strides again, although Ali, who was riding Dolly alongside said he looked normal. Later that day Roma came over to show me how to massage him and she instantly picked up a hot spot on his right loin/rump. Once she pointed it out I could feel it too and it got me quite depressed as we seem to have taken a step bakwards.  Do you find it important to exersise Harley ever day and do you notice it when you don't? Harvey does live out 24/7. Another thought - I used to keep Harvey in a field with a slope and varied terrain, also he used to have Frankie chasing him, keeping him on the move. This summer Harvey has been with old Winnie in a flat field. Maybe these ESPM horses should be kept on varied terrain so they can keep ther muscles going but at their own pace? How do you keep Harley? |
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Post by cutemangurdi1 on Oct 9, 2011 15:48:20 GMT -1
We had no varied terrain in Lincolnshire, Pam, but Sigs did get through it. I did a lot of walking, under saddle and long reining n the days when he seemed too sore for me to ride.
I alos used hot water bottles/heat bags on the area where we noticed a loss of muscle as this helped to ease things. It was a good 6 mths before the 'hollow area' disappeared and he looked and moved normally though.
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Post by harleydales on Oct 10, 2011 7:24:03 GMT -1
Harley lives out 24/7 on fairly flat fields. He's in with Lady who likes to move around a lot and have a hoolie, but he doesn't join in much to be honest.
Yes, they are better out and moving - I shift tapes every day and keep the water away from the fresh grass so they have to walk back for water.
I can only ride at the weekends really, as it is getting dark by 6.30 with us now, and I'm not back til then! I'm pondering taking a morning off each week to ride before work but to be honest am not sure how much difference it would make, and my vet (the FEI vet) agrees. I'm away from home by 8 every day, so winter riding is very difficult - plus then we get the ice and snow and that scuppers everything too.
Yesterday Harley was flat and listless, and even the stubble fields didn't get him going. He just blundered up the hill, really puffing and with no power whatsoever. Usually in October he's full of himself and bursting out of his skin, but not for the last 2 years.
I'm I'm going to drop the Alfa A Oil down, but increase the liquid oil to see if that helps, without piling on the beef. He's got a 12 mile pleasure ride next weekend so I'll see how it goes there.
The grass is probably quite sugary at the moment with the Autumn flush, and I'm thinking this could be affecting his muscle function as well, so I'm trying not to give them too much fresh grass each day.
I also massage, especially his loins and backside. He's got the muscle now, which is great, but there's no oomph. A bit like me and Lyme!
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