CK Levels

[wdf]

We finally had our Liphook report yesterday; CK 876 (<678), their opinion was that we did have muscle damage & some form of myopathy & that which type could only be diagnosed thru muscle biopsy. They recommended that all soluable carbs are eliminated.

UPDATE
After 6wks box rest the vets have now agreed for us to try some turnout again, after MANY discussions with the yard owner she is now allowing us time on the overflow carpark (which is a grassed area), he is currently still muzzled whilst being out and is walking OK, he's had to have front boots which he is quite happy to wear. We had the cranio massage lady last week who was shocked to see how much muscle he'd lost and she said that he's hind end was VERY weak and he's whole body was tight which became less once she'd done her "thing". The last 3 days I've stared walking him out, only 20mins which seems to have helped a little.

[flintfootfilly]

Thanks for posting. Really interesting to hear your CK results. They use a much higher reference range than I've seen previously, but even so, he comes in above reference.

CK peaks at around 5 hours after exercise/stress, so even though it was a little challenging to take a blood from him, the CK level should still be fairly accurate as a resting one IMHO.

I would be relieved to at least know that it WAS a muscle problem, rather than be wondering about different possibilities.

If I remember rightly, you are giving vitamin E and organic selenium so that's got that base covered if it's lack of either of those antioxidants. Vit E is usually not lacking if they have access to fresh grass, but needs to be added if they're off grass, and it works as is, ie it doesn't have to be metabolised, so can make a difference fairly quickly. Selenium has to be metabolised and takes around 3 months or more for levels to be raised in muscles so that can take longer to work.

I had a biopsy on Max who is a long way from normal. It showed no abnormalities, but from memory I think it was around £500. He just had a few days when I didn't put a rug on him in case it rubbed his staples (some vets use stitches), and you have to feel carefully to find where the incision was made now. When I get chance I'll post some photos of what it looked like. I was hoping for a definitive EPSM diagnosis, which would have made it worthwhile "risking" high fat in the diet (worried about weight gain and IR and laminitis if the oil wasn't strictly needed if he wasn't EPSM), but all it did was get a couple more vets agreeing there was something wrong but they didn't know what!

Glad he's getting some turnout. It's got to be good for him to be able to mooch around a bit.

Sarah

[harleydales]

Harley had the biopsy - they took 2 bits, one from the top of his tail and one from down his hamstring. Apart from a few white hairs you wouldn't know they were there, though there is a slight 'dent'!

Harley was in Glasgow vet school when he was done, he stayed there a further 2 days after the biopsy, then travelled 4 hours home in a normal box with a stable rug on. He had stitches and though they did get rubbed a bit and bled they never popped or anything hideous like that. I taped gamgee over them and used duct tape to keep it on!! He was shut in the big field shelter for 10 days.

I took the stitches out myself after 10 days without any problem.

My insurance covered it and I'm glad I had it done as we now know where we are with him - no carbs for him either, and a big difference.

Good luck!!!

[harveydales]

I thought I'd replied to this but I see it's not here.

Interesting to read this. I was also surprised at the higher reference range. I haven't got Harvey's results to hand but they were similar to yours. Never had him tested as normal. Interestingly, I was looking through my files for something and came across blood test results I'd had done for Quest many years ago when we were having him tested for Cushings. His CK levels were also high and, at the time, we didn't think anything of it at all.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[wdf]

Sept 7, 2013 5:34:10 GMT -1 harveydales said:

Good luck and keep us posted.

UPDATE
We are now 10wks barefoot and Lami free, we are having 9hrs out with soaked hay & walked twice a day for 30mins (booted on the front), he's feet are doing OK but I'm having a little dilema with working him we havn't had any locking stifles or stone hard muscles since he fell over with the farrier however we just can't seem to get rid of the hind end oddness (intermittently for a second legs give way), the only way I've found is to REALLY push him forward, legs, legs, legs, small tap which I hate doing but if I let him do what he wants a snail could overtake us and every few steps he's legs "stutter?"

We ARE improving and I know we are early days into recovering but just feels sometimes we're getting nowhere fast. What sort of work load/routine did you guys do?

[flintfootfilly]

Remind me how long he's been on the vit/mins including selenium yeast? Just replied to your thread on another group, but forgot to ask on there.

If it's selenium deficiency like mine, then I hope you'll see a big difference when he's been on it for 5 months. That's what's happened to my five ponies, twice, now.

Sarah

[harveydales]

I suppose it depends on what the cause of your Problem was. I never really found out with Harvey but he came back to normal full activity very quickly.

[wdf]

Sept 23, 2013 15:32:37 GMT -1 flintfootfilly said:

Remind me how long he's been on the vit/mins including selenium yeast? Just replied to your thread on another group, but forgot to ask on there.

If it's selenium deficiency like mine, then I hope you'll see a big difference when he's been on it for 5 months. That's what's happened to my five ponies, twice, now.

Sarah

Only 9weeks - wanting too much to soon! I tried him with some grass the other week; not FULLY locking but he wasn't right at all so he's only having soaked hay 24hrs a day now.

[flintfootfilly]

Thanks. Early days, then. Really hope you see a good improvement by Christmas.

Sarah

[wdf]

Had to have the vet out this week - came back off honeymoon to a pony that was "the lights are on but no one's home". Anyway, had bloods run and we have a very mild infection. BUT, the CK level now shows 599 (was 876)

[flintfootfilly]

Hope the infection soon clears up. Good to hear CK is heading in the right direction, and that must only be around 3 months in from starting on the new balancer so I'd hope you'll get even more improvement by Christmas (if it's the same thing as my guys).

Sarah

[harveydales]

That must have given you a fright but glad it's just an infection which should soon clear up and the CK levels are moving in the right direction.