Tola Update

[heathera]

Tola has now had a whole battery of tests done. She is negative for cushings and equine metabolic syndrome. She doesn't have a reproductive system infection. She is now 40kg lighter and sound on soft surfaces but still slightly lame on hard, gravelly surfaces. We've tested her CKK levels and they were actually lower after her post exercise recovery period than before she was exercised so she's not EPSM/PSS either. We've put her through an incredibly complex and challenging neurological exam and x-rayed her neck and she's not a wobblers case. Her basic bloods are all fine and she's now refusing to eat her ProHoof supplement (with extra high levels of minerals) but is happy to eat Pro Balance (basic vit/min powder) so she obviously doesn't need any additional trace elements.

I now have the all clear to do groundwork with her and she can be led for ride and lead but she's definitely not rideable. I gently leaned over her last week and she immediately tensed up, ears flat back, and started stamping her back feet. She's fine in walk and trot but still struggles badly with canter when we're doing liberty or online work. Her muscles and breathing still fatigue quickly when asked to do faster work, so we don't.

The video of her strange behaviour is winging it's way over to various vets around the globe for their opinions but we're no nearer a firm diagnosis than we were three months ago. At least we're keeping the vets entertained and Tola's happy as long as we don't try to ride or work her too hard.

[flintfootfilly]

So sorry to hear you've not been able to get a diagnosis after all the effort you've put in to get to the bottom of it all.

If you haven't got copies of all the blood results, I'd definitely ask for copies so that you can look at the actual figures yourself and be sure that they aren't significant. I've come across so many people whose vets have said the bloods were ok, but it's turned out on closer inspection that some results were borderline or outside reference range and should have been taken more seriously.

Sounds like you are doing all you can. Did they check for kissing spines? Just thinking about your comment of her being unhappy when you even leant over her back?

Thanks for the update though, but I so hope you get some positive news about her at some stage.

Sarah

[valerie n scout]

It's a shame you can't Suss her problem x

[tinkerdorisalison]

wow heather you have really made an effort to get to the bottom of Tola's issues. Sorry to hear no definite news yet though.

Would she drive ?

[Debbie]

I'm so sorry to see this Heather! poor Tola, and poor you! Is there any chance you could message me the link to her videos/photos? I'd like to have a peek and see if I could offer any help/support/suggestions

[heathera]

The video of her behaviour can be seen on YouTube here

youtu.be/2zAhPDJHx5A

youtu.be/2zAhPDJHx5A

She's doing well with her online and liberty work but I let her dictate her speed and how much she does, the last two nights have involved a fair amount of canter buck! My vets are a registered equine hospital with decades of experience so I trust them when they tell me all the numbers are within normal parameters. The fact she point blank refuses to eat the Pro Hoof, with additional minerals, but happily gobbles the standard Pro Balancer down tells me she doesn't need extra high levels of trace elements at all.

She seems happier and livelier than she's been in a while and has lost another 5kg this week. I can feel her ribs quite easily now which is great, only another 25kg or so to go.

Kissing spine has been me tinned by me but the vets are looking at neurological first due to the behaviour in the video. They are sending it all over the world to lots of experts and trying really hard for me, I do appreciate them.

[dalesponyrider]

Heather I am so sorry to read this. I'm not up to date with DF posts so have missed all this. Sounds as though you are doing everything humanly possible though, Tola is lucky to have you and your vets! Loads of love to you and scratches to Tola! x

[dalesnfellfan]

So sorry to hear of Tola's problems, in the video she appeared to be pushing her head into/against the fencepost and wall, this can be a sign of poisoning/liver damage I think, I'm sure your vet will have thought of that and would probably have shown up on the blood tests but just a thought.
I hope she soon starts to show some improvement and that you can get to the bottom of what's wrong with her.

[Debbie]

I was wondering about liver too. How are her Gallbladder/liver/kidney meridians? The shape of her hindend in the stables really caught my eye.

It's like she's having a tummy spasm, which causes the whole to go. It's almost like when the mares get the contractions for foaling. She seems to feel before the spasm starts which brings her hindquarters down and forwards. She's clearly not happy about it and seeems to be keepoing herself perfectly still before it happens. Could it be a stray worm pressing on an important bit of liver or the diaphram? Built up toxins maybe causing the spasms to trigger??

It must be so frustrating to everyone, especially you and M I love how the vets are floating it around the globe to gain the collective knowledge. What a great thing you've caught so much of her behaviors on video. Being able to see this in action might trigger a vet who's seen this before. I hope it leads quickly to a diagnosis and treatment for her.

Congratulations on getting her weight down! Every bit helps and I'm sure she's much happier for being a lighter weight. Tola is so so lucky to have you for her owner. You're moving Heaven and Earth to help her.

[heathera]

Bloods show liver to be fine. When checking in on her meridians it's usually Stomach that shows up along with Kidney. I haven't seen her do this big behaviour since but I do see the momentary tightening in her gut and back that happens a few seconds before these big episodes. I wonder if it's spasms of her reproductive system or large intestine which ties in with Stomach but there's no real way of knowing. I'm going to try her on a supplement designed for horses with ulcers but I'm not sure it will help if there are ulcers in her large intestine rather than her stomach but it has to help.

I'm not really doing much other than caring for her basic needs and bringing on her online and liberty work to keep her body and mind fit. That's something I'd be doing anyway. I'm missing our hacking out and TREC schooling but I'm trying hard not to think that we might never do ridden work again.

My biggest fear is tumours of some kind somewhere as we seem to lose a lot of our animals to rare and weird tumour types Ultrasound of her reproductive tract was clear though as ovarian cysts or tumours was the first thought from the vets back in the Spring.

Thank-you for all the good thoughts and suggestions.

[Debbie]

for you and Tola. I could see the Stomach meridian just in the video feed.

When Galahad first came to me, he showed symptoms that might indicate ulcers. I asked the doctor from Australia and he promptly told me Slippery Elm twice a day for 3 months. It was a full Tablespoon morning and night. Galahad was on soaked beetpulp feeds and he seemed to thoroughly enjoy the Slippery Elm. The doctor warned to continue for the full 3 months to ensure everything was properly mended.

Try not to think on the future, but enjoy her in the moment. There's always the chance that tomorrow might bring a full diagnosis and cure

[dalesnfellfan]

If you're suspecting duodenal ulcers or ulcers anywhere else in the gastro-intestinal tract green clay really works taken for 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off.
My daughters TB was in a really bad way with all sorts of weird and wonderful symptoms and she took him to Donna Blinman who is a vet but also chiropractor and treats the horse holistically, she can tell by feeling if the horse has anything wrong with any organs as well as bone and muscle, anyway she found he had duodenal ulcers and treated it with green clay (cant remember the dose but I could find out), he also was very toxic probably from ingesting something when younger which she treated with chlorella and dandelion root. It took about 5 months to be completely back to normal but he started to improve within about a month, she did warn that he may seem worse to start with as the toxins started to flush out and this did happen with him, but the recovery was dramatic. During these 5 months he was having monthly treatments with Donna as well.
I don't know where you are Heather but if you wanted a second opinion I would highly recommend a visit to Donna, she is based just outside Newmarket and has clients travel from all over the country to her as her reputation grows, she has a waiting time of about 8 weeks she is so booked up. She really is very good and is able to find and treat problems most vets are unable to find and as a fully trained and experienced vet working at Rossdales before she qualified as a chiropractor/physio you can be reassured about her credentials. I don't know how to put a link on to her website but if you look up Donna Blinman you should find her.

[flintfootfilly]

Heather

I'm so sorry you are having these problems with Tola. I've never seen any horse/pony collapse its backend in the way she was doing on the video. I suppose I agree with others that it's a bit like the reflex when their tail is put in a bucket of cold water, but I have no idea what could cause it.

I don't know whether she'd do phone consultations, but Sue Dyson at AHT in Newmarket is brilliant, as will have seen thousands of horses who others could not diagnose. So personally I would definitely check with AHT whether she would take a look and comment on the video, for a fee, even if it's not realistic to take Tola to Newmarket. You never know, she might have a suggestion.

I understand your trust in the vets who have taken bloods previously, but my own experience in trying to get to the bottom of problems is that some vets (irrespective of the number of years experience or their reputation) can be dismissive of anything they have not previously recognised as a problem. Although I can't imagine that a blood test would show up a cause for that kind of collapse, it's definitely an avenue I'd want to check on if it was my pony involved.

I too have heard good reports of Donna Blinman from various people, but I have not met her or had any of mine seen by her.

Sarah

[dalesnfellfan]

I have first hand experience of Donna and she put a lot of problems right with my Sec D mare including a problem with her ovaries which was causing her a lot a pain and behavioural issues and also has made a difference to Spuds comfort diagnosing a long term bladder problem that other vets were unable to find. My vet was at first quite dismissive of her findings but came round when her treatment proved to be spot on and is now happy to work with her. She is very quiet and good with the horses and I have mine all booked in with her every 6 - 12 months for a MOT.
My vet also uses Sue Dyson for second opinions and really rates her but I have not had any personal experience of her.

[heathera]

Sal.y taking Tola to Newmarket isn't practical for us as it would be a 12hr trailer journey and cost a lot more than we have. Given what she's doing I'd be reluctant to trailer her that far too.

I'll speak to the vets and ask if they'd be happy for me to share the video down south. I suspect they may well already have done so if the people you recommend are vets down there. Thanks for the suggestions.