Help/any thoughts on clipping .....

[dalesnfellfan]

a pony who doesn't want to be clipped.
I started to desensitise Emmie to the clippers, using advance and retreat, many weeks before I intended to clip her and all went well, I was able to run the clippers all over her body both off and on without actually clipping any hair.
The day I decided to clip her I thought I'd just do a bib and belly clip and went through the training again before actually clipping, running clipper at a distance, running it over her body off then on and finally clipping.  I did under her neck and her chest OK, but as soon as I started to go between her legs she started to move around, then on the girth area she really objected and cow kicked my hand, not hard but very accurate. I did a couple more strokes in that area then went back to her shoulder where she was more comfortable, she still wasn't happy so I turned off the clippers and ran them over her body till she was relaxed again and called it a day, thinking I'd do a bit more in a few days time. 
However when I tried again I started all over again running the clippers at a distance and she got very upset and was unable to stand still at all while I was holding the clippers either on or off.  I have persevered with a small cordless very quiet trimmer I bought specially for the job just having them running near her but to not avail, I even just had them running in my pocket so the sound was muffled and also tried an electric tooth brush but to no avail, if she thinks I've got the offending article on me even switched off she is very agitated.

She has also become difficult to catch, something we've not experienced since the early days before she started to trust me and this has coincided with me trying to clip her. It appears to be the actual removing of hair she objects to as I decided to remove some of the very long fluff in her arm pits with a pair of trimming scissors yesterday, she was Ok with the scissors going onto her but as soon as I started to snip she got very agitated and threatened to bite me, something she never does.  I can touch her with my hand and a brush all over including between her legs and her tummy including brushing the hair the wrong way.  I am absolutely sure I didn't nick her and the clippers were cool.

I am now at a loss and I'm thinking that I will leave her hairy this winter as we are not doing any fast work and although she does sweat it's not excessive, she really does get very upset and as she has started not to want to come to me in the field I don't want to do anything to destroy her trust in me. I thought maybe I could try to gently introduce the clippers again during next summer with the view to trying again next winter.

What do you all think? I would welcome any thoughts/ suggestions please

[nedales]

Hi Andrea,

While sensible Dales Lad adores a clipping (loves the warm shears and rhythmic sound) his predecessor Archie (a non-sensible TB -like QH) was seriously perturbed (as in leaping the wall and threatening to eat all clipper operators) when the buzzers went on. Here's what we figured out:

Choice 1: Forget about it. Who needs horse with phobia? Spend the extra time cooling out.

2: Desensitize (we got really quiet clippers too) very, very slowly, Background noise--figure out if it is the noise or the heat/buzz.

3. Sedate. If it's that important to clip then why make it an issue? Archie was easily "sedated" with a magnesium.tryptophan-laced bucket of warm sweet feed. In fact he was so happy I could stand upright on his back and clean his sheath once I jumped down.

4. Eventually Archie stopped trying to pretend he was part of the wall opposite to the clippers. E.G. he got used to it. Sum cost? 200 carrots, 7 pounds sweet feed and untold hours yes and no.

5. Was it worth it? I guess so. Lad has been trace clipped early autumn when he suffered from heavy coat and still very warm heat. Now it is winter that clip has grown in and I think likely to leave it.

6. Sounds like Emmie says enough is enough. A little at a time?

[harveydales]

I agree with all that Nedales has said. I realise this must be upsetting as Emerald has been so calm and accepting about everything else so far. She clearly has a sensible nature so there is something genuinely worrying her about the clipping procedure. I would give her a rest from it and take things very slowly. Definately a good idea to work out which part of the clipping it is that worries her. I'm sure you will get there in the end as she seems to be a very sensible, genuine pony.

Dolly got her first clip ever when she first came to us, aged 12. She was fine doing one side of her body but objected to her belly being touched on the other side. She was very sensitive in the belly area in general but we took it slowly and coped. The next time she was clipped she was absolutely fine and now she loves being clipped and goes into a trance. We never found out what it was she objected to that first time. Maybe just the strange new experience and it must feel threatening to have this vibrating, noisy machine touch a very vulnerable area of the belly.

[dalesponyrider]

Is it really necessary? Saturn Is very hairy and I don't always have access to clippers. He lives out 24/7 without a rug and I still ride him unclipped. I just make sure I don't ride too late in the day and give him plenty of time to dry off. He usually has a good muddy roll and settles down to some serious hay eating which keeps him warm. It does mean my riding is a bit more limited in the winter, but not massively impacted.

If you introduce the clippers agsin, do it very, very slowly and put in some sort of reward to make it worth it to her.

D is a VERY strong minded pony and I got her to do all sorts of things she didn't want to by my own version of clicker training. In the end she would try her heart out for about an eighth of a polo which she would extract very gently from between my fingers! For her, a small bit of polo is totally worth it!

[heathera]

You've done everything right, you just need to do it again with smaller steps and longer time spent on each step. You have my sympathy as Drummer, my old gelding, put me in A&E the first time I tried to clip him.

It took four years and a few set backs like you've had before he was solidly safe to clip using mains powered, rattle clippers but it was definitely worth persevering as be ended up with a disease that meant he had to be clipped once a month for six months for ultrasound scans to be done.

I did have the vets sedate him for the first 18months so I could clip as I was restricted as to when I could ride and I wanted to do fast work which he couldn't/wouldn't do if fully hairy. In between times I did as you have. I started with an electric tooth brush and standing outside the stable but I also combined it with clicker training. Every time he paused from whirling round the stable, even for a microsecond, I clicked, turned the toothbrush off and he got two high fibre cubes. When he could tolerate the toothbrush I started with a hand held massager from Boots, when he could cope with me outside e stable with that I progressed to being in the stable and giving him a massage.

I also did a lot of work doing leg rotations and stretches and working on making sure his skin and muscles were relaxed and soft across his ribs and in his armpits. If you try to clip or trim a pony with tense underlying tissue it's quite unpleasant for them.

The final thing that really helped was to invest in a set of cordless clippers. After the fright with normal, mains powered clippers he freaked out every time he saw the cable.

I'd simply persevere, introduce clicker and don't move on a step until the previous one is really solid.

[dalesnfellfan]

Thanks for all your replies, the problem I have with clicker training or in fact giving treats at all is that she wont take any treats, she's the only pony I've ever known who will not take anything from my hand, doesn't like apple, carrot, parsnip, swede or polos, she will eat alfafa pellets but not from my hand. I successfully used clicker training with Briallen who would do anything for the tiniest scrap of any treat but Emerald just seems to think I'm trying to poison her. It took me ages to get her to eat anything but hay and grass when she first came but even now if there's anything different in it like pieces of apple or carrot she just leaves the lot. She does love scratches though and that's what I tend to use as a reward, although when her adrenalin is up when the clippers are running she's not bothered about .that either
I think I will leave her unclipped for this winter and try again next year when we will be doing more fast work, just give her plenty of time to dry off, after all, as my daughter reminded me, years ago we never clipped just spend time rubbing down and drying off properly after exercise.
Heather your reminder about not moving on until a step is really solid and breaking down into smaller chucks is spot on and I'll definitely remember that when I start again with her.
Thanks again I really appreciate the input.

[dalesnfellfan]

I had a bit of a success with her today, I wanted to clip Spud so thought I'd bring Emmie in as well and tied her up next to Spud while I clipped him using the big clippers as nothing else would get through his coat. I just started clipping him and ignored Em whilst keeping half an eye on her in case she reacted badly. She just stood there an watched and only took a step sideways when I came round to do the side nearest to her but soon settled again and even felt happy enough to eat hay whilst he had his clip. I didn't attempt to touch her or even look at her but did talk to her and tell her what a good girl she was. I'm still going to leave her till next year but was very pleased with her reaction today, when I do start again I think I'll have Spud next to her for comfort and start with the clippers on him.

[harveydales]

That's excellent! I'm sure with this steady approach you will get there in the end.

[heathera]

That sounds great progress. Merlin and Rose react well to scritchies as well as food rewards for clicker, you don't need to use food, just something they experience as pleasurable. The click says, "YES, that was the right thing", the reward can have a second or so time delay while you move to their favourite itchy spot. Tola was loving having the leading edge of her shoulder blade itched last week and when they moult is a fabulous time to teach new things that they might find challenging as they'll try *anything* for a good de-hairing groom.

Why not keep going over the winter and next summer? You don't have to clip, just build up to being able to massage her with the body of the clippers when they're running. Can you do any front leg rotations and stretches so she becomes more comfortable about relaxing her elbow area?