Dressage horse question

[Debbie]

Okay, I want to put this forward and ask, because I'm not a dressage person. If the thread turns inflamatory, I'll remove it, or if you want to just pm me, that'd be peach too.

This mare presumably won her class, and all in all seems to be enjoying her work. But the whole tail wringing thing is just getting to me!

beboframe.com/FlashFrame.jsp?Size=S&FlashBoxId=3309347442

I'd been taught when younger that a working western horse that was wringing its tail was unhappy....either the saddle didn't fit, or there was a burr somewhere, or it was a young horse that was learning something and finding the learning process 'hard'. But essentially its unhappy.

Now, for much of this mare's performance, she's wringing or lashing her tail, very much like a cat......Is this something that's normal for dressage?? Is there some reason dressage horses do this nowadays?? I'm not trying to be offensive or dense....as I said, I know nothing about dressage, so I'd love it if someone could explain what's going on for me.

To me, it doesn't really look like she relaxes til the performance is nearly over...evidenced to me by the relaxed and flopping ears in cadence with her rhythym. I don't doubt that the pair's phenomenal, I can see that from the cuing and flawless performance....but someone please explain that tail! I didn't see it happening when the Lippizaner stallions came over on tour.

[Rowndan]

hi deb.

not really sure to be honest.

i used to have a pony that would swish its tail like mad when he was being silly it was rather handy when out riding as you were prepared for a few good bucks lol it was like he was winding himself up!!

just edited to say it must be very supple to do that with its tail and all those dressage moves at te same time

[bellajack]

Watch the rider's feet. The degree that his toes are pointing downwards and outwards seems, to me, to co-incide with the amount of tail swishing going on. You can't see how long his spurs are but it seems to me that he is using them an awful lot in a pretty aggresive manner - he is practically kicking the horse with them at one point.

For me, it is not a good advert for competition dressage as it exsists today. And the horse REALLY appreciates the hug at the end, doesn't it!!!!

[zeldalithgow]

I've always been told that if a horse swishes its tail it's an unhappy horse - I did notice that she didn't swish so much when she was going forward more, I also thought she might have been holding her tail more to one side

[greydales]

Looks like too much spurs to me ..

[harveydales]

Yes, it does look like the tail swishing is in responce to the spur use but, for me, the horse does look to be enjoying himself, he is listening and waiting for his rider attentively and doesn't have the horible forced tension waiting to explode you see so often these days. I'm not sure on this one - horses will autmatically swish their tail to the lightest of irritations, how much is an automatic responce. Some horses do it more than others. I would want to see this horse working at home to decide for sure.

Tail swishing used to be classed as a "resistance" which you should be marked down for but I think (and I may be wrong) that this ruling was changed a while ago and I don't remember why. I would be interested in what the judges comments were on this one. Don't get me wrong, I hate the forced, tension that seems so popular at the higher levels these days and I disapprove of many of the practices that I know go on in many top yards (have seen it first hand). I hate the use of any sort of gadget and wouldn't use any myself, not even the sort of lunging equipement popular amongst those of us at the lower levels. But I'm just not sure about this particular horse........

[greydales]

Horses do tend to swish their tails at any irritation, be it whip, spur or some other discomfort - as you say Pam some are more sensitive than others! But watching the video carefully the most extreme tail swishes are directly in response to a jab with the spurs - particularly with the lateral work where you can see the rider using them quite intensively.

[Debbie]

MEGGA thanks for the responses!!!! Like I said, I'd just been told as a youngster, so I wanted to hear from some of the dressage people, what it was exactly I was watching.

Yes, the mare definitely enjoys herself, and she certainly appreciated the big hug at the end She knew she'd done well!

I was just wondering about the whole tail thing, really... so thanks for the replies

[bevbob]

OMG! thats the best dressage to music Iv ever seen!
I thought the tail movement just showed how hard the horse is working and using itself.
Ill go and look at the spur thing now but how fantastic was that!

[bevbob]

Bloomin marvelous, even the kids said hows that horse dancing lol.

I remember talking to a german girl at a treking center a while ago, she had come over here as she said working as a groom for dressage riders wasnt her ideal thing. The horses hardly ever saw daylight, were worked in an indoor school for hours and never saw grass ever.

[southerner]

Thats true - my friend worked there recently and said the same thing - but they didn't miss it as never had it!

[bellajack]

Given that everyone seems to agree that the tail swishing is a result of the rider's use of the spur, perhaps the debate should be about whether he is using them in a classically correct manner; as a refinement of the leg aid, to clarify the leg aid to the horse, or something more than that?

[greydales]

To me, the rider doesn't look to be using his spurs in a particularly classical manner . He is definitely jabbing/kicking the horse on some of the lateral moves which coincide with the severe tail swishing - but wouldn't like to comment on whether this is any more so than other top riders. Beautiful horse though.

I'd like to put this link onto EE and see what comments they have, if that's alright Debbie?

[Debbie]

Ohhhh, go for it Gill!!! I debated with myself whether or not to even put it on here as I didn't want it to disintegrate into But I'm NOT a dressage rider, whatsoever, that's why I just HAD to ask in the end.

Hmmmmm.....maybe it would be better for some of our lami prone ponies to never see the grass either ;D Seriously, I do think its the system in how they've been raised as to how an animal adapts. Some of the racers/show horses positively freak and are miserable when turfed out onto pasture.

[southerner]

Sorry but thats the horse working, no way could he get that expression with spurs digging in. in dressage spurs are used to define the aid, not usually to cause pain. Also his toes are not sticking out so he will be brushing not poking. a horse trained to that level has a huge variety of responses to pressure which end up being close together. Hence the use of spurs to define the aid. If you ride this sort of trained horse you may ask for canter and get half pass if your foot is in the wrong place.