Chicken out.. tonight 9pm channel 4

[Rowndan]

i think if they were my birds i would maybe feed them different, but i have to feed what the owners get in and that is chicks..

i really enjoyed last nights program, hugh is brillian i admire him so much and his cooking and way of life is a real insparation to me. i too use evey bit of a chicken when i cook one, sunday me and darren had a roast and we just had the legs and some stuffing and johnathan had some breast meet, monday i made chicken soup usinf the stock i made from the carcass and last night i made carnation chicken with the breast that was left over. not bad really from just one bird.

last night i got really cross with the woman who was saying she couldnt afford the free range as she was a single parent which i fare enough, im prob going to get told of now so sorry mods, but the lady was a rather large lady well to me if you cant afford a free range you cant afford to be that size? maybe if she cut down on what she ate she maybe could afford the free range. sorry to all who maybe want to slap me but thats how i feel about her

[lucydales]

That was my thought exactly Row, but life has ground her down and it's difficult to have a positive head on when most of the things going on around you are depressing! At least she was up for being in the programme and is the organising force for the allotment chickens.

It's also good to see both sides of the argument, cos unless you understand where the "other side" are coming from, how can you construct a counter argument! Seeing her son upset will probably hurt her more!

You also have to consider that the more intelligent you are the more you can rationalise things. And also of Maslow's hierarchy of needs, feeding, clothing, sheltering yourself and your family are a higher priority then ethics and morals! That lady will benefit from this programme, believe me, even if she still buys cheap chicken, and her kids probably more so, because of the allotment veg and chickens.

Now if the HMGovt could fund those sort of schemes in deprived areas for everyone, what a difference that would make!!!

[harveydales]

Couldn't have put it better, Lucy! I haven't seen last night's episode yet but I get the picture and it is typical of what I see in the more deprived parts of Grimsby. I do understand how a large family on the minimum wage, working long hours find the moral aspect irrelevant. But the message will gradually filter through. It would help speed it up if the supermarkets took the initiative and, as Lucy says, if there was funding for such schemes. We have a lot of allotments in our area and it would be nice to see money being spent in this way rather than wasted on big firework displays!

[Debbie]

The really sad part is that the poorer in our country have to rely on cheap foods = foods with high fructose corn syrup for filler. I think many people are borderline diabetic in this country, and certainly overweight from all the hidden sugar that's slipped into foods.

I can easily understand someone not caring about ethics when its food on the table, but if they understood the condition these animals are raised in, they'd be less keen to put them on the table.

As Row says, if you get creative a chicken really can be extended for several different meals.

[PonyGirl]

I can't watch.

[lucydales]

Nope, I was wrong! She's a sad no brain slapper who got caught buying the 2 for a fiver birds in the C-O free range week!!!!!!

(wink!)

[harveydales]

LOL Lucy, we watched the second episode last night and you and Row are right, she is a sad ********!!! But Hugh did get the message accross to all the others so that's not bad going.

[Rowndan]

Hail Sir Hugh !!!!

i think that man prob went ot hell and back making that program and in the end he started to get the message across.

i felt quite overwelmed at the end and burst into tears LOL it was gret to see it all come together and maybe in 10 years we will all be free range..

that woman want blowing up, either that or shuttinig in a shed and intensively farmed but only with food on ration!! sorry..

[bevbob]

I can sort of understand the buying cheap chicken thing as Iv done it regularly, after watching the hugh and Jamie programmes I will never buy it again. It was a shock to realise how much of a big jump it is from intensively farmed chicken to free range. Tonight I couldnt afford to buy 4 chicken breasts for 10.00 for one meal.
Jamie made a comment about buying organic chicken legs is around the same cost as cheap breast meat so I went for that option but when I got to supermarket, there was bugger all left!

That woman did annoy me though, she had the opportunity to keep free range hens and get quite attatched to them, she saw how awful the conditions were in the intensively farmed birds and then still went and bought the cheap chickens! lol, people are the strangest of things!

[lucydales]

I've bought cheap chicken too, Bev, and not thought about it, where as I won't buy anything other than free range eggs, how daft is that!

It's just I've not thought about it and it's never been brought to my attention either. I don't eat veal on principle but then what's the point of slaughtering day old dairy bull calves rather than growing them on in a non intensive way and then eating them? (read about that on H F-W's site).

Nothing is simple!

There was mass protest to close a horse slaughter plant in the USA which succeeded, but horses still needed to be killed so they were travelled to Mexico in poor conditions and then slaughtered inhumanely when they got there!! Things have to die, it's about making it occur with the least stress and suffering.

This is a very difficult and distressing subject. We actually have to take our feelings and emotions out of it and look at what's best for the animal concerned in a logical and thought through manner, looking at what happens if we stop what already exists.

Not eating cheap chicken is better overall for chicken welfare, closing horse slaughter plants where they are properly controlled and monitored is not! Actually with horses, we should look to why we have the excess? Perhaps horse racing should take a hard look at itself!

[Debbie]

The horse slaughter's been a biggie for the people in the US, as traditionally we don't eat horsemeat here.

I've grown up in Missouri, and we've always had to keep an eye out for people that steal horses to truck to the plant in Illinois (only one state away). Its an unfortunate fact that many of the stolen horses did end up at slaughter.

The plant in Texas I was happy to hear did shut, not because of the whole slaughter thing, but because that particular plant was not run properly. It did nothing to prevent the runoff from going into the city's water source, and the people living in the city have complained for years about it. Can you imagine turning on your taps and having blood come out? That's what these poor people were faced with. You could possibly move, but you certainly wouldnt get a good price for your home.

For me the last stickle point with the slaughter thing stems from the abuse of the BLM who's supposed to be in charge of the welfare of our wild horses and burros. In the 60s it was big business to round up the horses and take them to slaughter. And even with it against the law, the practice continues today.

As for the slaughter houses being shut down, you're right Lucy, the horses were trucked to far worse conditions in Mexico. And I don't know if the higher fuel costs will prevent future shipments or not. At this point, I guess we wait and see if closing the slaughter houses will really make a difference or not.

I do know much of the fight over the slaughter houses has brought to light how corrupt some of our govt agencies are. When the order was issued the first time to shut them down due to lack of USDA inspectors, the inspectors were suddenly funded from foreign agencies. This was despite a judge's orders to cease and desist! Again and again it was thrown back in the public's face that even if they said they didn't want the slaughter houses operating, there was enough money at stake to find loopholes around.

[lucydales]

Debbie, I am ill informed about the realities of what's been going on, and I apologise if I caused any offence. I think we are in agreement of the principle though, that capitalist greed for money doesn't pay any consideration for animal (or human) welfare. There will always be excess animals and what to do with them is problematical as the industries that produce them don't care for their welfare. I don't know what the answer to capitalism is though, as communism doesn't work either! I don't suppose the animals care as long as they don't suffer in the process. A lot of market horses go for meat here too. I feel worst for the ones that go to Ireland for live shipment, at least if they die here it ends.

I am too tired tonight to continue any constructive discussion! I'll end on I'll be buying free range chicken in future!

debs!

[harveydales]

Well said both of you. The problems are huge and all most of us can do is follow our moral instincts as individuals by going for the free range option where possible and trying to be informed about what is really going on. What a brilliant job HF-W and JO have done in bringing this all to a wider audience and getting us all thinking.

I've avoided intensively farmed animals and eggs for many years now but still buy products such as mayonaise ocasionally even though I knew some of the hidden ingredients - I won't any longer. My current worry, which wasn't mentioned on the programmes, is dog and cat food.......what am I feeding Ben?

[greydales]

I hope that everyone thinks not only of chickens, but of the other intensively farmed animals such as pigs - who have such intelligence I feel it's even more cruel to them to be crammed into small barns to be grown on

I went to a farm to pick up some hay and straw before Christmas and didn't realise it fattened up pigs until I heard the squeals. The barn had four bays and there were 1800 piglets in it! So many that they were literally running over each other and when I thought of the life of Riley my two have I felt so sad. These animals will probably sold and packaged as 'farm bred'!

[harveydales]

Absolutely Gill! When I said going for the free range option I meant for ALL meat animals. Chickens get the worst of it but I think pigs come a very close second. We get all our pork from a local farmer friend, buying half a pig at a time. It is actually cheaper than buying from supermarkets and the meat is far better quality and flavour.