Hock Problems

[April]

I was just wondering if anyone had any experience of hock problems in their ponies? Jester has been 'not quite right' for a few years now and showing signs of wear and tear in his hocks. He was backed at probably younger than 2 and worked for hours on end every day in a riding school for 2 years before we bought him as a 4yo. I then jumped him two or three times a week competitively up to about 3ft on average until about 3 years ago, he's now approx. 18/19. It's mainly when he's been in for the night or just got up from rolling/lying down, once he's loosened up he's fine. The vet didn't believe me when he saw him trotted up yesterday and said he was perfect, luckily his lameness clinic rider is my yard owner and convinced him he isn't quite right! Just wondered if anyone had experiences of hock problems and how you dealt with them we've been thinking it's arthritis for a while but vet doesn't seem to think it is. He'll probably be having xrays at some point over the coming months but seeing how bute on a 'bad day' helps him for now as it's nothing too major as of yet.

[tinkerdorisalison]

my dads driving pony Alick had his hocks injected (don't know what with) maybe 8 years ago . I understand the effect can last a number of years - he is stiff and pottery now, but it did help at the time.

I spoke to the lady who has my mare Kizzy on loan the other day and she asked me if I would mind if she had her hocks injected. I haven't had chance to read up about it yet. The pony is stiff some days, and only jumps once a week if that now. Her vet recommended itand said it will keep her more mobile for a couple more years. The pony is 19 this year and ridden 5/6 days a week

[Debbie]

Even though he's not bad enough yet and you're catching this at the onset, you might consider taking the xrays now. It will give you a baseline for future care and will help you now with your vet's assessments of his hocks, and treatments.

I know of an elderly pony (over 32) who had the injections into her stifle and it definitely helped her. My own Galahad used powdered myrhh twice daily in his sloppy bucket feeds (soaked beetpulp and Strategy) and it made a huge difference in his way of going. In fact, there were only a couple of times I messed up and he ran out of myrrh, and within 2 days he'd reverted to being pottery. On myrhh, he was as fluid as he was at age 5.

Jester's lucky to have you for his owner since you've caught this early on, you'll be able to give him the support he needs in the years ahead.

[April]

He's one spoilt pony that's for sure!! Will definitely get him xrayed, they're doing another horse on the yard in about March/April time for his annual lami check up so will get Jester done at the same time. Vet seems to think it's very very early stages of anything and told me not to worry for a few months. He's been having blood tests every couple of months for cushings at the moment as he's on the borderline so we've decided to try and get that a bit more stable before we investigate anything else further, unless of course he gets any worse in that time, but we don't think it will as he's been the same for a few years now. Will also read up about the injections, had only heard a horror story up until now but it's worth thinking about! I know they have to have three injections in each hock if they don't know which part is the problem, but hopefully having xrays would solve that. I had an mri on my ankle this morning so we're both as bad as each other at the moment!
Have been reading about turmeric as well seen as everyone is so hyped up about it at the moment so I'll investigate myrrh too hesitant to add anything to his feeds at the moment though now we've got his weight down a bit and cushings more controlled just in case I mess it up!

[dusty]

Rory has early arthritis in his hocks. It was very hard to spot but he just wasn't right. We ended up having him scanned with radioactive dye as he was never lame enough to tell for certain where it was coming from to nerve block.
He's had 2 sets of injections then shockwave on his sacroiliac.
Feedwise I truly do spoil him he has micronised linseed powder n codliver oil n Newmarket joint supplement.
Touch wood he's fine now, we are allowed to jump n do everything as normal and I try and keep him in as much consistant work as possible and he now lives out 24/7 so hes never stood in the stable.

[April]

That's good news that you're still able to jump him and that everything seems fine now! Has given me a bit more hope, I stopped jumping Jester 3 years ago and I miss it SO much, as does he! Wish I could keep him out 24/7 but the cushings doesn't allow it :/ Vet's confused me saying he doesn't think it's arthritis but I think it must be.. We'll see!

[DalesLady]

I have been having the same issues with one of my ponies. Early onset arthritis we think and been to a vet this morning without success. We were thinking x-rays and steroid injections, but got nowhere at all. We are not insured and I was left with the distinct impression the vet couldn't care less. I will try another vet when I have got over this - also told me pony overweight because she is more than 350kg! It is a 14.1hh Dales pony lady! So cross right now.

[April]

I use Pool House Vets, they cover North Staffs, don't know if you're still a bit too far for them though? They're absolutely fantastic, Gil has won vet of the year and he's petplan's advisory vet that does videos and goes on tradestands etc. with them. He also writes articles for Horse and Hound. I used to work at the other local vets and find Pool House to be SO much better and they provide a fantastic service. One of the vets is Icelandic and she loves coming out to the ponies to do their jabs, she has Icelandic ponies at home and always compares the breeds! There's a really dishy vet too that always tells me 'it's nice to see ponies how they should be and in their natural state', maybe it's his way of telling me they need a brush ha.
Gil's been on the phone to me today discussing best options for Jester; he doesn't seem to think the problem will cause any great pain to Jester in the near future as he looked perfectly sound when trotted up and tested, so I'm just going to give him bute if he does seem overly stiff one day and doesn't loosen up as quickly. We'll have xrays eventually but there isn't any rush and we'll just take it slowly. As Jester isn't young and competing regularly there isn't much point in rushing through the treatments and ending up giving it him constantly for the rest of his life, so at the moment if Jester's happy I'm happy! I can step up the work a bit more with him (or at least mom can while I have my ankle sorted) and jump him again and hopefully that will either loosen him up more or show the problems for us to investigate further. Only things I need to be a bit more cautious about is circle work and going down hills, also lunging can put quite a lot of strain on hocks so I might avoid that as much as pos. Seems strange to step back a bit when I know there's a problem but I trust Gil's opinion, although I do know he'd always investigate further if I insisted.. and it sounds daft but I know Jester will always make it known to me when he needs helping!

[DalesLady]

It is a little too far, but we do have other veterinarian alternatives not that far away thanks April. Will see how she is in a fortnight, don't think she will be down to 350kg by then though

[jay]

Have you tried using magnetic hock wraps? Might be an option for him overnight to help ease the morning stiffness.

[dalesnfellfan]

Jan 13, 2014 15:42:43 GMT -1 DalesLady said:

I have been having the same issues with one of my ponies. Early onset arthritis we think and been to a vet this morning without success. We were thinking x-rays and steroid injections, but got nowhere at all. We are not insured and I was left with the distinct impression the vet couldn't care less. I will try another vet when I have got over this - also told me pony overweight because she is more than 350kg! It is a 14.1hh Dales pony lady! So cross right now.

350 kg the right weight for a 14.1hh dales pony? Emerald was just over 13.3hh when I first had her and was 356kg on the weigh tape, at this weight she was very definitely underweight with spine, ribs , shoulder blades and hips all sticking out and not an ounce of muscle anywhere other than her rump. ( I've photos if vet wants to see what 350kg Dales pony looks like!) She is now 14hh 1/2in and has been between 404-408kg which looks about right for her and I can feel her ribs easily but not see them, she is not the heaviest build for a dales, in the last week she has dropped a little weight (396kg) and she looks slightly lean.
My vet saw her last week for vacs and he said she was just right, I think I'd definitely be looking for another vet!

 April, I tried boswellia for spud but it made no difference to him, but I've heard it helps some ponies, I found white willow bark worked best on him and is half the price, also use linseed but appreciate you might not want to use it if your concerned about weight.  I had injections into his pastern joints and he had no ill effects but also did not help him, I think the main problem is with infection at the injection site.

I hope you get something sorted for him and that your ankle op goes well, good luck also with finding the right solution for Coral

[DalesLady]

[/quote]350 kg the right weight for a 14.1hh dales pony? Emerald was just over 13.3hh when I first had her and was 356kg on the weigh tape, at this weight she was very definitely underweight with spine, ribs , shoulder blades and hips all sticking out and not an ounce of muscle anywhere other than her rump. ( I've photos if vet wants to see what 350kg Dales pony looks like!) She is now 14hh 1/2in and has been between 404-408kg which looks about right for her and I can feel her ribs easily but not see them, she is not the heaviest build for a dales, in the last week she has dropped a little weight (396kg) and she looks slightly lean.
My vet saw her last week for vacs and he said she was just right, I think I'd definitely be looking for another vet!

[/quote]


You are right. She is not going back to that vet. I don't think that particular vet was taking into account the pony is a Dales, just goes off the height of an equine. At 350kg she would definitely be seriously underweight and I would never try to get her down that far.

I know my girl is overweight, grossly so. She has been working hard, but now she has gone lame she looks worse because muscle tone has gone quickly as well. Our hay is a bit good for them this year, probably because we were able to make it when we wanted to not when we had the opportunity and so it didn't go stalky before it was made. That's not helping, but we are doing all the right things so we will get there. Ironically she was already on rations before we went to the vet and I did say to her we knew she was overweight and were working on it...I didn't need the lecture.

This pony looks right at around 470-480kg, she is 14.1, but a very wide set pony. Perhaps this seems quite weighty to you, but each pony is different as you know and any less and her ribs do show too easily. We have another who is also fat; they are on a diet together, fortunately they are best friends.

[dalesnfellfan]

I agree all ponies are different and 2 of similar height can vary considerably in what is right for them, Em is quite lightly built for a Dales and is also still muscling up, I suspect in a years time the right weight for her may be a bit higher, Spud is 13.3hh Fell and was 480kg when I had him which was grossly over weight and when lean and very fit was 404 -414 kg, now he's retired he's about 430kg which is a bit over weight but I can't keep him any less without the exercise.
Briallen, Sec D was right at 480kg but overweight at 525kg when on box rest.

470kg - 480kg sounds very reasonable for a wide set Dales to me, at the end of the day, you know your own pony and what is right for her, I know how hard it is to keep these good doers at the right weight, I suspect Emeralds present tendency to drop weight easily is probably due to her recent poor condition and her having had a hard time in the past.

[katiekynoch]

Robin was mildly lame behind coming out of winter last year and the initial diagnosis was a 'cold' abscess (there was a 1/2" horizontal split in the hoof wall just below the coronet band but no heat or pulses or other symptoms so the vet gave me bute for him) Then I found him one morning hopping lame and unable to weight bear on that same hind leg. The vet then thought there could be a problem in the sacro-iliac area as applied pressure caused him to dip away. After another course of bute and no improvement I decided to have his hock x-rayed and this showed he had bone spavin.

I would have liked to have had both hocks x-rayed to see if the other hock was showing signs of spaving too but the vet didn't have enough plates with him at the time. It may be worth thinking about bilateral x-rays when you get Jester examined. I hope it's good news for him.

The vet said there were three options. Firstly, the old fashioned harsh and unkind method of keeping him in work until the small bones in the hock joint fused. Secondly, cortisone injections into the hock joint (similar to treatment of human tenosynovitis) Thirdly, send him off to Liverpool for more sophisticated (and expensive) investigations and treatment. As I'd stopped vet cover on his insurance the year before (Robin had reached 15yrs, that age when the premiums more than double and he was a typical healthy Dales) I opted for the intra-articular injections into the hock and he showed remarkable improvement at the trot-up 3 weeks later.

He was off work for 6 weeks (during that glorious summer when we should have been out and about!) and has been lightly ridden during the autumn though, for different reasons, he is not getting as much work as he needs at the moment but so far he has remained sound.

Although only an amateur theory, I think having kept him stabled overnight (as a companion to a friend's horse that lives in at night) during last winter may have aggravated what the vet referred to as his 'elderly hocks'. He usually lives out 24/7 and thus is able to move around at will whereas spending each night from November to March in a 10'x8' stall meant he was pretty much immobile for 12 hours at a stretch.

As for the vet who regarded a 350kg 14.1 Dales pony as overweight . . . I'm speechless!! Robin (approx. 15 hands) looks really good at around 470-490kg (on a weigh tape, so probably heavier than that in reality) I'm ashamed to say he is overweight at the moment, the weather and personal circumstances having meant fewer outings . . . roll on the end of winter!

[April]

Thanks for all your ideas, will read up on everything and try out a few different things seems the injections are a bit hit and miss on different ponies but the option's there if he gets any worse!