The Great Treeless Debate....

[harleydales]

My jury is still out on treeless saddles, even though I have purchased a Libra trek treeless saddle for horses that change shape and any potential youngsters. I also thought it might be better for Apollo's back problem, shouold we ever be able to ride him agaian. Although it as pretty cheap for a treeless, it came with a good pad, has lots of padding on the underside etc and seems well made - I like it and Harley seems to go well in it.

HOWEVER, I still can't see how there is no pressure on the horses spine.

Most treeless saddles have a band that goes right over the spine, ie from one side to the other, for the girth and/or stirrups to suspend from. Surely then if you tighten the girth, or rise to the trot, you are going to put pressure on via this band? Even if the stirrups are independant, as they are on the Trek, it MUST still put pressure on with the weight of the riders leg?
I can see how they do free up the shoulder and lumbar area, as if a saddle has no rigidity it will fold around you when you sit on it - rather like if you sit on a pillow between your legs, it billows up in front of and behind you - which will of course take any pressure off the norses shoulders.

I know people who do 40 mile endurance rides in a treeless, and so far no problems, but I also know people who have had problems, so I'm not going to be using mine for long periods of time. I also accept that a saddle at the cheaper end of the scale may not be as good as a more expensive one, but as a 'spare' this was around what I could afford.

I know someone who has a youngster backed in a treeless and she says she's never seen muscling on a young horse like it - but her jury is still out too!!

I am very interested in people's opinions and have talked to so many people about tree v treeless and it is pretty much half and half for each type! I know quite a few folk on here use them.

Any thoughts, good or bad?

[SuzieP]

I wouldn't buy one! Hugely expensive and I simply can't see the benefit over a properly fitting treed saddle. Of course they're useful if you have several horses and want to use the same saddle for all - or have a youngster which will change shape as it matures.

I've ridden on both and generally find the treeless are bulky under my thigh and cause my dikkihip lots of grief. Initially they are comfortable under the bum, but I find them less stable and more inclined to slippage in sudden spook situations than my treed saddle (although this could be a rider balance issue).

And how durable are they? I understand that the memory foam degrades within a comparatively short time, and more so the heavier the rider - and this in turn can cause pressure points on the horse's back.

I have yet to be convinced of the benefits of treeless over well-fitting treed saddles and will follow the debate with interest.

Linda - don't wave your sox at me! LOL

[harveydales]

I tend to go along with Sue. A treeless is better than a poorly fitting treed saddle of course and not all regions have good saddle fitters who know what they are doing.

I'm not convinced about the spine thing and would only consider a treeless which has a good channel so there is definately no pressure on the spine.

It is true that the memory foam breaks down over time and could cause pressure points but the foam pannels are designed to be easily replaced by the owner in the better models, just as you would have a treed saddle reflocked from time to time so I don't see that as a drawback.

I've had Harvey for long periods in both treed and treeless and his muscleature has always been good. He is now in a treed saddle (a semi-flex so the best of both worlds) and he is better muscled than ever but that is down to his work with Tanya! So again, I don't see a treeless an advantage over a WELL fitting treed saddle from the muscle and movement point of view.

I loved the softness of the seat in my Fhoenix saddle and the smoothness of the ride it gives you but the width on a Dales Pony was just too much for my hips. I simply don't see how it is physically possible to sit in a correct classical dressage position with a long leg on a saddle that sits you so wide and still be comfortable. I tried Gill's new Vogue GP at the Performance Show and it did feel considerabley narrower than the older Phoenix - there are pics of me on it on the "Pics for Pam" thread just below this thread. I would have to ride in it for longer to be sure though. I guess we are all built differently, as are our horses, and so what suits one may not suit another.......

Anyway, that was my reason for going back to a treed saddle. Harvey was happy in both types of saddle, went well in both types and I never had any slipping/stability issues with the treeless. If anything, I felt more secure in the treeless. I do now of some people/horse combinations who do have stability issues though.

However, I never rode long distances in my treeless so can't really comment on that side. If I were doing the sort of milage you do, Jane, I would want the "bum comfort" of a treeless such as my old Fhoenix but I wouldn't have been able to stand the "hip pain" for long rides. I would need to be sure it was also right for Harvey.

I can see pros and cons for both types of saddle and I do think the horse and rider conformation must also be taken into account though. the treeless saddles are changing and improving all the time which is good but also puts me off getting one, knowing that in a few months time an even better saddle will be on the market and they are not cheap.

I will be interested in what others have to say.........

[greydales]

I've been riding in Heather Moffett saddles now for about five years (or since when she first bought out the SBS - I had one of the very first). Each subsequent model she has brought out has been superior to the previous one, in as much as she has taken on board certain problems and addressed them with slight redesign or upgraded materials, culminating in the Vogue which I think is superb.

I have never found any problems whatsoever with pressure/sores - the only times I've ever had a problem were not with the saddles but with the grip-type neoprene pads and girths. There is no way Heather's saddles can collapse onto the spine due to their construction - and the Vogue in particular has a high pommel which will clear the sharpest of withers. The memory foam itself is only used in the seat and not in the panels on the horse's back - this is another kind of foam altogether.

I have been on many long distance rides, fun rides and holidays; I've jumped, galloped, sat to spooking and my saddles have never slipped - unless I haven't done the girth up tight enough. I don't use any special pads and ride in a plain thin quilted numnah and Thorowgood dressage girth. I don't have the problem of fitting and reflocking, and the saddles fit all of my riding horses and ponies.

I do have a Barry Swain semiflex which is about the best treed saddle I've ever had and would never choose another - but in terms of comfort I would ride in the Vogue any day!

I do appreciate that for people with hip problems they may not be suitable but for me personally I'll never ride in anything else (apart from the Barry Swain!).

I've not tried other treeless models except only very briefly but for me Heather's saddles are far superior to all of them

[harveydales]

Oooh I meant the foam pannels being replaceable, not the squishy memory foam seat.

[SuzieP]

I agree with Gill that the Heather Moffett saddles are getting better and better as she listens to customers and responds with design modifications. But I have to say that I couldn't afford to upgrade my saddle with each new version.

How often have people had to replace the foam panels as they degrade? I've had my treed saddle for three years now and have had it reflocked at a cost of £25 once in that time. How does this compare to the treeless?

[carolinec]

I still ride regularly in the Freeform saddle I bought over 6 years ago and it still looks like new.

I've never had one single pressure point on Sam but admittedly I 've never done a long-distance ride in it. I tried one of the original Heather Moffat treeless saddles but it looked awful on Sam and slipped all over the place. I personally, I love the Freeform but it's all a matter of personal choice isn't it?

[harleydales]

So is the foam underneath where the girth and stirrup straps/bars are a much more solid foam then, that doesn't squash, thus keeping the pressure off?

[harveydales]

Yes, the foam in the pannels is quite firm and certainly keeps the saddle well off the spine, quite different to the memory foam in the seat. It does squash down a bit with time and I suppose rider weight and the style of riding must make a difference but at least the pannels can be easily replaced if they start to squish down too much.

[greydales]

Oct 19, 2008 18:09:07 GMT -1 harleydales said:

So is the foam underneath where the girth and stirrup straps/bars are a much more solid foam then, that doesn't squash, thus keeping the pressure off?

Yes Jane, the panels are made from moulded polyethylene, which doesn't compact like prolite. All panels can be replaced if needed.

[peggyloo]

i saw the reactor panel saddles today at the holistic horse show and am very impressed by them though they arent truely a treeless.just have a much larger weight bearing area.
id probably go for one of those if i could afford it as was so comfy to sit in and i liked the ideas.also 1 of the top endurance riders uses 1 for 100 mile rides so must be ok on their backs and for weight distribution.again its not a cheap saddle to buy though at nearly 1900 pounds!!!!