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Post by The Moo on Jul 25, 2006 9:38:01 GMT -1
Bev, did the vet say why lami was on the increase?
On one hand we have better feeds thanks to feed merchants doing research (and wonderful advertising campaigns) so ponies are probably 'better' than ponies of 20yrs ago.
On the other we have more information and education available.
Are there just more ponies around.
Is it because ponies of old did a hard days graft and never got fat.
Is our pasture in better health than before.
Is it global warming (may as well get that in LOL)
Just wondered.....
Please discuss.
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Post by harveydales on Jul 25, 2006 10:09:39 GMT -1
I was chatting to my farrier about this the other week. He said he is finding more laminitis cases but only through owner stupidity, namely overfed grass ornament ponies and horses. I also blame the feed companies to some degree for advertising "cooling mixes" etc which people new to horses think safe to feed. I am horrified at what and how much some people round here feed their horses. Also haylage taking over from hay. All of this is fine in work but not many of us really work our horses these days. I used to hack out daily for 2 or 3 hours but now wouldn't do that because of the heavy traffic and I'm not the only one round here.
Also I expect we are seeing more Cushings type laminitis because our horses are living longer now due to improved veterinary skills.
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Post by bevbob on Jul 25, 2006 10:18:26 GMT -1
He said it was down to the climate, we are having varying changes from year to year, look at our winter! that was mad, minus below then all of a sudden quite warm, then back to freezing!  ?? I have noticed (apart from this summer) that May has been the best month for sunshine for the previous 3 years. It must be down to climate, I cant think of anything else it could be??? fertilised grass maybe? but what I cant get my head around is why some lami prone ponies get it one year and are ok the next? and how quickly it can come on is frightening. Some owners on our yard do not check their horses every month let alone every day and there are so many that live out that could well have lami and it goes unnoticed. I have been really careful with Bobs this year but I also know it still could happen. I caught it early last year and the vet said he wont have any lasting damage but isnt a pony that could live out. I have had to fight to get him into a smaller paddock but I know YO will want to turf him off it at the end of Aug and Ill be panicking again! I suppose it also has something to do with people being ignorant about lami too, I know there are quite a few on our yard who still believe starving there horses gets rid of it, including our YO. I went to a lami clinic in May and they said it was down to climate change too and every year there is an increase in diagnosis of lami. I think there are a lot of ponies who dont get ridden enough too, mine for one! On saying that though, fat, thin, big, small, all breeds can get it and even a bang on the hoof can set it off. I just wish there was some wonder pill that fixed it good and proper, its awful when your pony cant eat its staple diet! |
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Post by bevbob on Jul 25, 2006 10:21:54 GMT -1
Pam, I too also think the feed companies have gone mad! Even the fibre feeds suggest you should feed an awful lot for the weight of pony!
I couldnt feed Bobs the amount recomended! hed be like a bloomin house! well he is now really lol!
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Post by harleydales on Jul 25, 2006 10:47:24 GMT -1
I agree about the feed companies. Also, some of the supplements we are offered have high protein/carb contents in them.
Horses definitely do NOT work as hard as they used to. When you think they used to work 10 hours a day as transport of farm machinery, and how many of us get 10 hours in per week, let alone per day?!
There are more horses and ponies around, and as society gets more affluent, I reckon more people are buying horses than ever before, which means probably that a higher percentage are going to inexperienced homes. Plus small ponies can be so cheap these days, esp the natives such as Shetlands and Exmoors, kids can almost buy them with their pocket money.
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Post by akehurstannabel on Jul 25, 2006 12:17:02 GMT -1
I've had the global warming theory for a while now! Jo x
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Post by flintfootfilly on Jul 25, 2006 12:26:40 GMT -1
The development of more nutrient-rich varieties of grass, especially perennial ryegrass, aimed principally at agricultural use where farmers want cattle to increase weight rapidly is another thing that's changed over the years.
Although non-ryegrass mixes are available, and can be made up to order from general seed suppliers, there must be a huge number of horses and ponies grazing pasture that is really intended for productivity and not purely maintenance. I'm sure that can't be helping.
Sarah
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Post by alisonduke on Jul 25, 2006 13:18:29 GMT -1
I agree about the ignorance when it comes to what to feed and also that a lot of people have no control over the grazing they use and only take drastic action when it's too late. My last pony only had laminitis the once and it was brought on by the fields being heavily fertilised and so the grass was far too rich. I'm not sure about climate changes, I struggle with this one only because we struggled with hot weather 30 years ago too but I don't rule it out completely.
Maybe pony ownership is more of an option nowadays with riding schools closing down, making people buy ponies they have no idea how to take care of.
I know a big part is denial too. Laminitis was always seen as something horses who aren't looked after properly would get and this isn't the case but this can cause people to turn a blind eye.
Let's hope one day we can find a cure.
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Post by greydales on Jul 25, 2006 14:29:55 GMT -1
I think a lot of people do overfeed their horses/ponies for the amount of work they do. I also think that there are probably more 'leisure' horses now as opposed to 'working' horses and it's perhaps why the number of lami cases increases - due to many of them doing nothing but grazing for 23 hours out of 24 or even more than that (as mine do  !). It could also be climate related, as our seasons seem to warm up, then get cold, then warm up again - which trigger extra grass growth spurts. Laminitis is an ever present worry for me as I do have ex-cattle pasture but I rarely give mine any supplementary feed. I might give them a token feed when they've come in for something but it really is a tiny amount and so infrequent to be not worth worrying over. None of mine do enough to warrant extra feeding, and even if I start to up the workload I will not give extra feed unless I think the horse/pony needs it - at the mo they certainly don't! They have grass alone all year round, which I started topping this year and found that to work very well. Last winter when the ground was frozen they got some haylage - even though I would rather have given them hay (it was only because I had the haylage already!). The only types of supplementary feeds I ever use are fibre based - such as happy hoof and hi-fibre nuts. I don't fertilise the fields (heaven forbid!) just try and keep it free from docks and thistles and am not too bothered about my fields looking brown and parched at the mo - as all the ponies are looking too well! |
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Post by debbiec on Jul 25, 2006 14:58:46 GMT -1
Lami has been all over the place this year. I think the good weather has just created great grass. My local farmer has had his hay cut for about a month now, which is really really early for him, and he says it's one of the best years yet. (he does amazing quailty hay) I think the grass is just super strong this year.
Everyone check the digital pulses and act as soon as you feel one. I had a new client the other day who had digital pulses in 3 of her 4 horses. She took action then and hasn't been able to feel a pulse since, so if you can get on top of it early you can avoid any problems.
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Post by debbiec on Jul 25, 2006 15:06:31 GMT -1
Pam, I too also think the feed companies have gone mad! Even the fibre feeds suggest you should feed an awful lot for the weight of pony! I couldnt feed Bobs the amount recomended! hed be like a bloomin house! well he is now really lol! When I bought my current horse about 6 years she was horribly underweight. I'd never really thought about feed before that. A handful of chaff and a handful of nuts was a feed to me. I thought I'd be really good and feed her a weight gain feed to help. Called the company for advice and they said I should have been feeding her 2.5kg per day of the weight gain feed. (and then of course there should be 60-70% chaff) so that meant over 5kg of chaff. So 1 bag of chaff would last a 14hh 3yo pony 4 days, and the weight gain feed would last about 10 days. I put the phone down thinking it must be rubbish. I couldn't even imagine what size bucket I'd need! (and how would a working yard manage feeding 1/4 of a sack of chaff per horse per day!) Never did manage to get weight on her with feed - good grazing is what worked in the end when I moved yards. Debs |
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Post by bevbob on Jul 25, 2006 19:55:50 GMT -1
I feel its more the rainfall we have then sunny spells thats making it dangerous at spring time. Its just perfect growing weather for anything. At least this hot spell is bad for growing grass!
Bobs field is parched but the bit of rain we had a while ago really greened it up, not much but enough to notice a difference.
We had 5 go down with lami last year and one sadly had to be pts, this year we have 3.... that people know about.
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Post by The Moo on Jul 26, 2006 6:47:35 GMT -1
Our fields are really brown and crispy at the mo and I am dreading the first bought of rain as the hot earth will send up those stressed out lucious little fructans full shoots so quickly.
I do think that the climate has a lot to do with it but I am suprised at the lack of knowledge in horse owners, there is so much information about, you can't help but read about it in the horsey mags, the freebie mags you get at the feed merchants, even feed bags are stamped with lami trust etc, doesn't anybody ask what the lami trust is etc.
Having said that it may be a bit cruel as why should a 17.2 warmblood owner feel the need to read up on stuff that only happens to fat kids ponies - yeah right ha ha - until it happens to them.
edited to add - that's brilliant Heather.
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Post by alisonduke on Jul 26, 2006 6:57:53 GMT -1
I meant to say too that a lot of dairy farmers are getting grants to turn their business into livery yards but don't realise the grass is far too rich.
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Post by debbiec on Jul 26, 2006 6:57:57 GMT -1
Hi Heather, I'm possibly telling you what you already know but have you looked into Mg levels for Rose. I went though problems with my mare brought on by stress. Stress uses up alot of Mg. Mg is what regualtes most metabolic functions. I see so many horses short in Mg lately, maybe that's because I know the symptoms or maybe it's just becoming a problem. It's also possible to be short on Mg because of a potassium deficiency, as you need the potassium to absorb the Mg. If that's of any help to you then visit www.justbespoke.com as they have worked wonders for my horse. If you already know all that I'll be quiet  |
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