Crank Noseband?

[kathnsonny]

Sonny has a habit of crossing his jaw, opening his mouth & leaning heavily on the bit when schooled in his pelham...now for schooling I am using a flash with the pelham to try break the habit & he certainly goes MUCH better with his mouth strapped shut (meaning I can actually steer & brake LOL!) & he is not trying to cross his jaw as much.
But I am looking to do my first show in 3/4 weeks & obviously cannot go in the ring with a flash & pelham.

I was looking at the crank noseband, it is used a lot in dressage but there are a few opinions out there that this is a very harsh noseband - I just wondered if anyone had any experience of these?

I am not looking for a quick fix & will break this habit...but I would really like to get him out as I think he is about ready apart from this..

Anyway would love to hear all views

K

[kathnsonny]

Thanks for the replies, in a snaffle he has no respect for the bit at all, even with a flash (he was crossing his jaw with that bit too & when talking to his previous owner recently they had also said he was doing this when driven). He is absolutely physically fine in all ways, back, teeth etc, they were the first things checked before looking at other areas (I should have put that in my first post ). Although he is just at the start of his schooling education he is 10 so it isn't like starting with a youngster, there are some inherited issues.

He is still getting used to the pelham & does go softly and balanced when he is listening, I don't think he has a problem with the bit itself, I have weekly lessons & my instructor has taught us from the start so has seen our progression from original snaffle to pelham, i did my AI (albeit quite a few years ago!!) too & do have the previous experience with double reins (not roundings). I do think he is ready to go out my issue is not knowing how he will react in that situation & just exploring different possibilities, like him not being as attentive & getting strong - although I guess I will just not know until we are faced with this but I think we need to do this to know where we need to go next with our education. Luckily its only a local show so hopefully nothing too stressful.
All replies completely taken on board & not ignored, all advice gratefully received.

[Anna]

Hello from the owner of another new-to-riding, only really been driven 10 year old dales pony getting going so I completely sympathise with the inherited problems. Bend was issue! Its been near impossible but we're getting there!

I have had a near identical problem to you in the crossing of the jaw, opening mouth and leaning heavily on her bit and did a very similar thing to you in putting her in a flash but on a snaffle after deciding it wasn't a pain response etc. I tried every different bit under the sun with her including the pelham etc. In the end Mum convinced me just to go back to near basics with her, she's in a hanging snaffle and thats it. It took probably months for her to stop mouthing at the bit but it slowly has decreased in time, it was just such a massive adjustment from a very strong driving bit to a much softer bit that she struggled with and the feel of a contact in her mouth.

She's been riding nearly 10 months time and we are improving at rates of knots, to think how she was in August time to how she is now is a phenomenal change but its taken a lot of slow persistance. Its beyond frustrating and taken a lot of sweat and tears. Sorry, thats very off-topic i know!!

Can you just take him out for wander about, no pressure about putting him in a class (unless he feels great there and then try that) but don't go with the intention of competing to see how he reacts first? Or do a dressage HC (with the pelham?).

I don't know really what to suggest, perhaps speak to a bit advice place about pelhams and whether a different sort would suit your boy in the aim of getting rid of the flash? I find the subject of bitting very complex these days, there are so many different alternatives!!

[kathnsonny]

Bend has been the issue for Sonny too, he barely knew what a circle was before I got him, luckily for me his previous owners are lovely (they had him since a yearling) so he had a great start in life.
We have been schooling since about June last year (frustration, sweat & tears by the gallon Anna!!) & have come SO far in that time, its just when he gets excited he tends not to listen as much & is quite easily distracted & there will be lots for him to look at at the show...so we will see!
We will be giving the crank a wide berth I think, it was just a thought, but I will definitely try the massage thing heather thanks & also may try the hanging cheek, am sure my friend has one I can borrow to try.
When we warm in at the show if it is all going horribly wrong I won't take him in the class, I think (and hope) he may surprise me he is such an honest boy which is what sold him to me - I always think schooling etc can come, just as long as they have the right head on their shoulders!
Anyway, no doubt you will hear of our exploits...we have about 3 weeks to go yet though so I'll be getting lots of practice in these next weeks!
K

[greydales]

I would definitely keep away from the crank noseband; as has been said, it's all too easy to overtighten (hence the term 'crank'!).

My old horse used to stick his tongue out the side of his mouth and get it over the bit, it was a habit stemming from discomfort when he was bitted as a youngster in a very severe bit . I tried all kinds of bits and he'd get his tongue over with a pelham and even a double - he would even stick his tongue out when I rode him bitless . What did work (eventually) was to go back to a fairly basic bit but use a drop noseband, and I was eventually able to return to a normal cavesson.

I've never liked flash straps as they are in effect having two nosebands on the horse; both of which can press the cheeks into the teeth if done up tightly as they are fitted higher up the face. Using a flash with a pelham isn't to be recommended as both use the curb groove; the flash strap will interfere with the action of the curb. I prefer the drop as it's just one noseband fitted around the narrower part of the jaw where there aren't any teeth. Plus, you can show with a drop noseband - but again as with any noseband it shouldn't be overtightened .

[SuzieP]

Bea was in a gag with flash - strong horse who opened his mouth to evade the bit. I was looking for a fix - I admit it - and didn't have the experience to know how to school him out of his habit. He was 9 when I got him and had done nothing but hunt.

I went to a Tanya Bridgeman clinic in the summer and she encouraged me to get rid of the gag and flash and work towards less severe bits. They were my comfort blanket rather than doing anything good for Bea. Over the summer I've been working with him in a happy mouth pelham for hacking (when I need a stronger bit on occasion) and a straight bar happy mouth snaffle for schooling. No flash, just a cavesson. He's going beautifully - very soft and frothy - and is clearly more comfortable and much freer in his movement. I hope that we can hack out in the snaffle before too long - just need to do a bit more work (probably more for my confidence than anything else).

[southerner]

I would also look attrying a hanging cheek with a drop noseband.this fits the face shape of the dales better and can be very effective without being tight. much better than a flash.

[jec248]

Jan 8, 2009 14:18:43 GMT -1 heathera said:

If Sonny is crossing his jaw, opening his mouth and leaning heavily on your hands in the pelham he's trying to tell you something isn't comfortable for him. Strapping his mouth shut will mean the evasion will eventually come out somewhere else as a tight poll, sore back, bucking etc. In the short term you may have steering and brakes but you may well find you don't have either after a while once he learns how to evade a

I AGREE.

[valerie n scout]

Scout has a habit of slightly bending his neck, if HE thinks I have too much contact,I begin to see an eye ! so.......he is the boss and I give him a little more head x and were both happy,he doesnt do anything daft so am happy too.
It took ages mind you,to find a bit he liked so we have in th house
1.straight bar snaffle (hated it)
2.jointed happy mouth snaffle(hated it)
3.straight bar happy mouth fulmer snaffle(hated it)
4.waterford loooovvvess it
all of the others above 5n half inch so if you need one give me a shout, there just gathering dust x have a eggbut snaffle lying about somewhere too x
its a case of trial and error am sure you will get sorted all the best xx