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Post by harleydales on May 11, 2012 17:38:50 GMT -1
You know Harley is EPSM, which means he can't have grains because he can't process sugars or starches properly, so all his energy (calories) has to come from oil. He takes the oil no problem all winter, up to 150ml per day, but now he's got nice fresh spring grass he's not keen and won't come for his feed.
SO, rather than an EPSM question, it's more a 'how can I get oil into him?' question!
He gets about half a kilo of Spillers Cool Fibre, and also about quarter of a kilo of Alfa A Oil, which is I think 12% oil. The Cool Fibre is really just a bulker and carrier for the liquid oil. Then he gets the 150ml oil on top of that, plus supplements. I also mix it all with water to help to distribute the oil. I know that sounds a fair bit of oil, but to put it in perspective, to do a pleasure ride he goes up to 250 to 300ml oil - and never puts on any weight.
Without the oil he loses condition and muscle, but grows a MASSIVE crest. This happened last year (same issue, wouldn't take the oily feed) and it took me from May to Spetember to get him right again, so I have to find a solution this year.
I'm thinking of cutting out the Cool Fibre so he's just getting the Alfa A Oil, maybe increase the amount he's getting so I know he's getting some oil. Once he's happy eating that again I thought I would start to add the liquid oil in again.
Should I ditch the water - wondering if that's just making it even more 'claggy' - like being presented with really soggy fish and chips on the hottest day of the year!!
Any thoughts?
Any other ways of getting oil/fat in? Pondering milk pellets but I don't know how much sugar they would have or how expensive they would be!
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Post by cassey1988 on May 12, 2012 8:27:09 GMT -1
Maybe you could mash up a bunch of apples and put the oil in?
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Post by harveydales on May 12, 2012 11:40:21 GMT -1
I don't know but good idea to try cutting back on the cool fibre and replacing it with Alpha Oil if that increases the oil percentage. In the past I've found my lot go off Alpah Oil in the spring when the new grass is so sweet. Hard to know what else to do with out spending lots on special high oil mixes. I saw somewhere that Rowan Barbery to a special EPSM mix which is 50%oil and I know there are a few other similar mixes but I imagine they will all be very expensive.
I've got Harvey on Winergy senior and then supplementing it with Thunderbrooks base mix/balancer which is 25% oil plus a small amount of additional added oil. Harvey finds it very palatable but I doubt he is getting as much oil in total as Harley is. So far, so good though. We've got a longer endurance ride tomorrow which will be a good test.
A while ago you said that Alcar hadn't made any diference to Harley otherwise I would have said reduce his oil and add Alcar.
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Post by zeldalithgow on May 12, 2012 15:48:43 GMT -1
Could you add some tasty herbs to his feed like dried mint
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Post by Debbie on May 12, 2012 17:37:35 GMT -1
Is there any way to restrict his access to the spring grass (will it be high in sugars? ) in order to tempt him with his regular food?  Probably not practical for however you're keeping him at the moment. |
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Post by harleydales on May 12, 2012 18:06:46 GMT -1
No, if he's restricted he just hammers up and down the fence and still won't eat. Same if I pen him to have his tea, he boots it over in his hammering.
I tried cutting out the Cool Fibre tonight, and found the Alcar so added some of that (found it disolved very readily in water) but he still wasn't keen. I stood over him and he did eat it.
Might try your idea of adding some herbs Zelda, to mask all the other tastes.
I'll have a look at that feed as well Pam, see if I can get it up here.
He's never been a greedy pony and it's a total nightmare now at this time of year!
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Post by Fi on May 12, 2012 18:58:51 GMT -1
On our yard we've several Cushings horses who've become very picky eaters with the nasty taste of pergolide. By trial and error of various minty flavoured things we've found that a bit of Schweppes Peppermint cordial (Morrison's sell it) added to the feed helps make it more palatable.
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Post by tinkerdorisalison on May 12, 2012 19:42:23 GMT -1
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Post by harleydales on May 13, 2012 9:00:16 GMT -1
Ah - oats and wheet are a no-go.
I've looked at the Saracen feeds before, think I'll have another look - even if it is costly it's just to get us over this yummy grass period so short term.
I've pondered milk pellets - I used to feed them to a Cushings mare I had and they worked really well for her.
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Post by harveydales on May 13, 2012 12:36:40 GMT -1
I was also pondering Saracens Relieve a while back but decided to stick with what seems to be working for now.
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Post by harleydales on May 14, 2012 7:54:26 GMT -1
I looked at the Thunderbrooks, but at 11% starch decided it was too high for Harley.
Last night they ALL got Alfa A Oil, and ALL got Harley's supplements, and ALL got Alcar - so if there was any swapping he still got what he needed!!
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Post by harveydales on May 14, 2012 7:59:33 GMT -1
Yes, I wondered about the starch but then decided it was OK because it is such a tiny amount you're giving, no different to a conventional balancer when you consider the amoungt of starch in mgs. Plus Harvey doesn't seem to react badly to starch, spring grass etc.
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Post by flintfootfilly on May 14, 2012 11:30:33 GMT -1
Difficult dilemma. It's hard to compete with the palatability of grass at the best of times!
I guess if he won't take it any other way, you could always syringe the oil in like a wormer, but YUK, I think that would be truly messy!
Otherwise, would he find a different type of oil more palatable? I only got up to 150ml a day with Max at one time (my choice, not his), but he was eating that readily as corn oil. I have the suspicion he'd have wolfed up any extra oil I'd put in too, but I could be wrong. But then Max has never been a fussy eater - he's just a hoover really!
I think corn oil is meant to be one of the most palatable, although it's also one of the more expensive ones.
Sarah
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Post by harleydales on May 14, 2012 14:13:02 GMT -1
Syringing it it wouldn't work - he'd get upset, start rearing and refuse to be caught - they're all out 24/7. He's never been a greedy pony, I could never use food as a bribe.
The problem with feeding them all the Alfa A is that if he wanders off without finishing his then Lady will scoff it - not required!
I'll keep looking - at corn oil and Saracen feeds. It'd be so simple if they could all eat the same thing!
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