Liver problems

[sck1]

Blue went in for his spavins operation but yesterday I got a call saying they didn't want to go ahead because of his pre-operation blood tests. He had elevated levels of enzymes in his blood which increased the risks of problems post-operation. They have since tested for another enzyme which is also elevated. Both come from the liver and the vet has sent off tests to the lab to see if there is a problem with liver.

I searched the archives on here for liver problems and couldn't really find anything about treatment. Vet said it was unlikely to be ragwort and has not said anything about treatment yet.

We visited this moring and he was enjoying his dinner (licking the manger and everything) and then eating his hay so he is very happy in the vet's stables.

Does anyone know of treatments for liver disease? Vet says cause will be difficult to pinpoint.

Thanks

[Anna]

The best thing for a liver problem is to feed Global herds Retox and you can also get a liver supplement called "Visorbin" which is vet only. Both very very good for liver complaints, don't panic too much, liver damage can come from anything from a bit of ragwort (generally a consisten build up) to a trauma/bump or stress or infection or anything. I've had a lot of success with both supplements and as the liver regenerates overtime so once you're back on track fingers crossed it'll stay that way.

[sck1]

Thanks Anna, its reassuring that we can do something.

[Debbie]

I'll echo Anna, detox his liver. Thankfully the liver does rebound fairly quick if given a bit of time and help

[flintfootfilly]

My gang all kicked over into liver disease a few months ago (probably a result of trying to address muscle problems), so I've had to do a fair bit of reading up on it.

Andy Durham at Liphook is one of the world experts on equine liver disease. Worth a look at some of his stuff, especially:

liphookequinehospital.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/LiverDiseaseandLiverBiopsy.pdf which gives an idea of which values can be taken as prognostic indicators.

I am surprised the vet was able to say that it was unlikely to be ragwort just from a blood test. I thought it required a liver biopsy to assess the type of damage and relate it to possible cause. Also, depending on how long you have had the pony and how much of its history you know, you'll probably be in a better position to say whether ragwort is a possible cause or not.

I've now read of a lot of people whose horses have shown liver problems on blood testing, and have not known there was a problem prior to that. In many cases, it is difficult to find out the cause.

However, if there is an ongoing problem it really is worth trying to find the cause, and remove it, so that you prevent ongoing damage and help give the liver chance to regenerate.

My understanding is that by the time the horse shows visible signs of liver damage, there has generally been too much damage done to repair. Whereas if you pick up damage via a blood test, hopefully the damage may have been more minor and there is a greater chance for the liver to repair itself.

Some enzymes indicate cellular damage in the liver, whilst others show functional damage (ie the liver not working properly), so worth knowing exactly which are high in your pony.

I am finding that GGT is taking many months to show a significant reduction (as predicted by my vet), whereas GLDH is more of a rapid response enzyme, which goes up quickly when a liver insult occurs, but also comes down quickly when that insult is removed........ so GLDH can be really useful for telling whether you have been able to remove the insult (it took about 2-3 months from removal of the likely insult (feed) in my case to see the levels return to normal levels).

A compromised liver cannot cope well with protein, so unless the horse is losing condition, it's worth opting for a relatively low protein diet to avoid stressing the liver more.

Things we looked into as possible cause were forage analysis (especially for selenium, copper, lead and iron levels), mycotoxins in hay, liver fluke (especially if there are areas of standing water around which could harbour the snail which carries this disease), hepatitis e..

Knowing the relevance of the levels of enzymes will help, I'm sure, in working out how to proceed. Have you any previous blood tests to look at, to see whether levels have been elevated previously?

Oh, and I think the reason they don't like to operate if liver enzymes are raised is because there is some risk of post-operative bleeding if this is the case.

Hope you get some more encouraging results soon.

Sarah

[cadeby]

That's an excellent and very informative response from Sarah (flintfootfilly)

I think with Blue it's a definite case of wait and see what the lab test reveal in terms of which specific enzymes are elevated, and then take it from there re. treatment.

Hopefully, with Blue's liver anomaly being caught by a blood test, as opposed to obvious physical symptoms, it will be an early-onset problem and easily treatable

[tinkerdorisalison]

Sorry I don't know much about this at all except my neighbour lost two donkeys as seperate times over the last 5 yrs with Liver disease (neither were old in donkey terms)

The land round here (and mine) is riddled with ragwort, but like other have said it may be nothing to do with that.

Sarah - I hope you get to the bottom of your issues and all your herd are soon healthy and happy x

[lucydales]

Is Blue drinking too much wone??!

Hope you get to the bottom of it soon, and you too Sarah.

Lx

[harveydales]

What a worry for you. Lots of interesting information here. Sounds like it's a case of waiting for the further lab results and going from there. Hopefully it will all resolve quickly.

[dalesponyrider]

Such a worry. Liver problems are so hard to work out. I've had the same with my three but it was attributed to ragwort which despite my best efforts got out of control for a short time. Thankfully all the ponies are ok now and there isn't any ragwort to be seen!

[makemineadales]

Hope all goes well Blue best wishes xx

[sck1]

Thanks for all the information and kind words. Blue is having a liver biopsy today, and finally coming home after 5 days at the vets! He will have antibiotics in case of Hepatitis and some detox liver pills whilst we wait for the results. Apparently he is really happy in his stable with his new mates so he might be a bit cross to come home again.

[harleydales]

Harley had liver issues in 2004 and again in 2010 when the EPSM was confirmed. Since being on the new diet for the EPSM I haven't had him liver tested again, but it's be interesting to see what the elvels are now.

Monty the Mule is in slow liver failure from Ragwort poisoning prior to him coming to me - there's sadly nothing we can do for him other than prop him up. He gets milk thistle seeds and dried dandelion, and I also feed him malt pellets which are full of B vitamins. He also had a 30 day course of Collavet.

[sck1]

He is finally home! Just waiting for the biopsy results. He is on Norodine (antibiotic) and Hepatosyl (detox) for the next couple of weeks. He is eating everything in sight as if he had been starved at the vets (and I know he wasnt because they commented on how much he liked his grub).

[NFK Dumpling]

Poor old boy has been in the wars.

Most unlike a Dales to like his food......

Hope he responds to treatment.