Mast Cell Tumour

[harveydales]

I'm posting here to let people know what is happening to Dolly as I am not going to post on FB. Also as Mast Cell Tumours in horses are extremely rare, so anyone googling might find this useful. I know from personal googling there is very little out there on these tumours in equines.

In January Dolly managed to prick the inside of her nostril on a blackthorn, no doubt stuffing her head into the hedge to see what there was to eat. We noticed a tiny bit of blood after a ride and when I investigated, I found the tell tale sign of a prick - a tiny blister like spot with a pin prick hole in the middle. She has had these before on her lips and as she has got older, they take longer and longer to heal, sometimes up to 3 weeks.

She wasn't bothered by it so we just kept an eye on it. After a week I spoke to the vet who wasn't particularly concerned. Vet eventually came out and said there was a little abscess forming which she lanced and gave me some antibiotic steroid cream and told me to bathe daily. It didn't improve, in fact it got worse. Also the pus had calcified into timy grains, something which we know Dolly is prone to. I spoke again to the vet and she said it sounds like it needs to "brew" more before she will come out and lance it. She wanted me to give Dolly a 5 day course of antibiotics which would start to knock it on the head but not cure it. Once off the antibiotics the abscess would return with a vengence and then she would come out and lance it if it hadn't burst on its own. It grew to the size of a table tennis ball but didn't burst. It was then early March and the vet came out to lance it. Dolly still wasn't bothered by it, was looking very well and happy. Instead of liquid pus, inside was calcified matter which the vet swilled out and I was to swill it for a couple of days to make sure everything was out. She also sent off a peice of tissue and and calcified matter for analysis just in case there was anything sinister going on.

The results for the calcifed matter came back as low grade infection easily treated by any antibiotic which was good news as the vet was concerned we might be dealing with MRSA. However my vets managed to "lose" the histolgy results on the tissue sample in their spam folder despite me constanly ringing in! So it wasn't until a couple of weeks ago that I learned she has a Mast Cell Tumour. These tumours are very rare in horses and mostly totally benign, unlike in other animals such as dogs. But I can find no cases of these tumours in the nostril. I've seen pictures of and read about them on eyelids, lips and more accessable places but not nostrils. Dolly has been referred to Oakham Veterinary Hospital and I've had long conversation with the vets there. They think they may be ble to remove the tumour with a lazer with her standing but can't say for sure until they see her. I very much doubt they will be able to do it without anesthesia. Dolly is 20 and has a history of laminitis, EMS and needs very careful management. I am not sure I want to put her through the trauma of this and those who know Dolly well agree. If we do nothing and let her be while she is well and happy, she may have a long time still but also, the tumour may grow quickly blocking her breathing. No one can say.

If Dolly were younger or didn't have the other medical issues I would go through with the surgery. If the tumour were in a diferent area I would go through with it. But as I know Dolly well, I am not sure it would be fair to put her through more. So that is where we are right now You can imagine how stressful this is, especially after losing Harvey so suddenly last month. Dolly and Harvey were very close which doesn't help....

[Debbie]

Cripes, I would have been furious over them losing the results. I've actually encountered this only once before, but in an elderly Samoyed dog. Beyond elderly and hers showed as severe bleeding from the nose that we couldn't get properly stopped. Given her age and in her case, other medical issues, and worse, the tumor had already advanced massively, the owner chose to put her down.

It's impossible for any of us to say how long she'd had the tumor though? The hemoraging the vet said was from the massive tumor finally giving way, but right up through that day, even through the vet visit, she was happy. There was no pain and because she was a dog, she could breathe through her mouth and didn't seem the least bit bothered with the blood going everywhere.

I'm afraid she's the only case I've ever come across, so it's thankfully exceedingly rare, and that was back mid 1990s. Surely there's been advances made for the treatments since then? And given Dolly's nose is much larger, surely it will be easier to treat and monitor.

you know her best, so the standing and local anesthesia may do the trick for her, allowing fast treatment and slipping her right back home, like a day trip to the spa. The only other thing I can recommend is fresh ground flax seed. We used it for Amanda to reduce massive tumors in her intestines. I sprinkled it over her food daily. It reduces bloodflow to tumors. If I come across anything else, I'll be sure to post.

I'll keep you and Dolly in my thoughts

[harveydales]

Yes, it's disgraceful the vet losing Dolly's reults and it is one of the few "good" equine practices in our area! I will be changing vets and letting them know why. They let me down with Harvey too that awful morning. They were short staffed and couldn't get anyone out to me quickly. I kept ringing and ringing because I knew it was serious. I requested emergency cover but they fobbed me off. In the end we took it out of their hands and took him straight to the big equine hospital which is not the correct procedure.

Re Dolly, it's a very dificult one. Even the 3 hour journey to the equine hospital will be very stressful for her. Those of us who know her well and nursed her through her last few illnesses really don't think it would be fair to put her through it again. Plus there are no other cases of mast cell tumours in horses in the nostril so it is a big unknown. But we will see........

Thanks for the linseed info. I didn't know that but I do feed micronized linseed anyway and recently upped her quantities.

[Debbie]

When I was making the flaxseed for Amanda, I had a dedicated coffee grinder for it. I used a teaspoon, would grind it, then instantly sprinkle it over her food and get it in front of her within 5 minutes. Although I've used flax in various other forms, nothing compares to the freshly ground seeds. It's the only thing I can vouch for reducing the tumors. I think if you're using the shelf stable varieties, you may have to up the quantities by a lot, and of course if the seeds are whole, a lot will go right through the intestinal tract without being digested.

I'm speechless over your vet's actions! First Harvey, then Dolly's. Yes, I completely agree with finding a new vet. There's no way you can rely on someone like that. In the past, I had my vet roll his eyes at me over Galahad, and yet when he came out, he found why I was deeply concerned. I realize they sometimes think women over react, but no one knows your pony better than you. If there's a problem, it's a problem and I need you NOW, not next week.

I didn't realize how far away the proceedure would be, and I agree about not putting her through that. Perhaps a new vet would have something new to try? Or would they be able to come to yours to do a proceedure while she's at home? I know that last one's a strech, but always worth asking what might be available.

I've never messed with lasers or cold lasers, but I wonder if they might be useful in this situation?

[harveydales]

Apr 23, 2018 13:43:47 GMT -1 Debbie said:

I'm speechless over your vet's actions! First Harvey, then Dolly's. Yes, I completely agree with finding a new vet. There's no way you can rely on someone like that. In the past, I had my vet roll his eyes at me over Galahad, and yet when he came out, he found why I was deeply concerned. I realize they sometimes think women over react, but no one knows your pony better than you. If there's a problem, it's a problem and I need you NOW, not next week.

Ecxactly Debbie! I've been with that particular vet for many years and they should know by now I am not the sort of person to call a vet out for minor stuff. As you say, we know our own horses the best. With the Harvey episode at first I didn't think it was serious. But after a short while I did and kept ringing the vet every 15 minutes for over 2 hours! In the end my friend Tanya rolled up and thankfully took control She said this can't wait and organised the vets at the main hospital to be prepared for Harvey plus arranged for a vet to meet us on route to stablise him. As it turned out it made no diference as nothing could be done.

[Debbie]

Hindsight says nothing could have been done, but being ignored over a colic is ...well, that's one of those emergencies that as a standard appointment, I've had no problems being told the vet would be late because of a colic emergency. It doesn't get more emergency than a colic with a horse and anyone who's had horses fully understands. I've had to give Galahad an enema as a last resort because no matter how much I screamed COLIC, the vet couldn't reach me until the end of the day and my horse was dying of impact/dehydration colic. Hours later wasn't going to work.

I did find out later it was one of those freak days where practically every animal in the county got emergency sick/injured. The vet had a triage going and didn't complete it until 16 hours later. He grilled me later over my actions, but when I told him the vet was no where to be found, heck ya I'm going to save my horse, and stuff your medical ego. He fully understood and told me to absolutely do it again if needed. Like I needed his blessings? *snort....

I'm glad Tanya was able to step in and organize it. Sometimes you reach of a level of "That's my KID!" and begin to lose your ability to step back and see more options.

with Dolly I think you're doing right by her. She's had an incredibly happy and full life. Going by the Samoyed I knew, the tumor doesn't hurt one bit, but I sincerely hope the fresh ground linseed will reverse the size of the tumor pronto.

[Fi]

Aww Pam, what a horrible time you are having at the moment. I’m afraid I have no experience of tumours but you do know Dolly best and if you are having doubts about putting her through it then you are probably right.

Am horrified at the way the vets treated you and Harvey.

[harveydales]

Thank you both.

Debbie - that awful morning with Harvey the problem was the practice was short staffed because one vet had broken her arm. The other vet was out on another colic case when I rang and I was told she would be with me as soon as she could. Well as time went on I knew Harvey needed help NOW and so I assumed any good veterinary practice would have arrangements with other practices for emergency cover for cases like this. I was told they did but they kept fobbing me off saying their own vet wouldn't be long!

[valerie n scout]

Poor Dolly but we know you do what’s right for her massive hugs from us Pam xxx

[Debbie]

Apr 25, 2018 4:56:52 GMT -1 harveydales said:

I was told they did but they kept fobbing me off saying their own vet wouldn't be long!

That to me is unacceptable. If you are short staffed, say so. That right there is an outright lie. There's a certain amount of wanting to please people, and being unrealistic in your abilities to reach them all in a timely matter, but when you know for a fact one vet is completely out of commission and the other is already engaged in a colic emergency, you let your customers know so they can make appropriate alternate plans.