Misbehaviour in company

[harleydales]

Harley is such a lovely ride on his own, he's biddable, active and forward-going but listens and does what he's told. He'll stand when I chat to people I meet, is perfect in traffic etc etc, just a real pleasure to ride out.
Since I've had him, he's mainly been ridden on his own, and when we are doing Endurance I tend to ride on my own so I can do my own thing. So he's very used to going it alone, and very good at it.

BUT, give him a mate and he turns into a posing Kevin. I think it's all showing off as he's so good on his own. In company he jogs, pokes his head out, pulls faces at his companion, has to always be in front. If I let him trot he trots so fast no-one can keep up with him. If the other horse goes in front he gets mad and does rocking horse impersonations. Last week he kicked out at Apollo, all the poor boy was doing was walking beside him!

Yesterday we went out with Apollo and Harls was getting very hot under the collar, and had a minor bronc. Then it turned into a major bronc and the next thing he REARED!!!!!! One thing I really hate is rearing. It's not that he wants me off, it's more like he just can't get going forwards, can't get his legs into order so does this broncing instead! I pushed him forward and did lots of transitions and he settled again. Luckily Apollo was very calm and quiet and kept out of the way. On we went, and some Highland ponies who live on the moor (behind a fence) came through the dead bracken to see us, making a heck of a racket. Harley was totally rigid and snorting like a stallion. He went so rigid that in the end I got off and un-clipped his reins and lunged him in the field to get his attention back. I think if I'd stayed on we would have gone into orbit! Then I led him far enough until he relaxed and settled again, then got back on. He was pretty good after that, still wanted to be in front and jogged about, but no more hysterics.

Today I took him out on his own and he was SOOOOOOOO good. Didn't pull, stood still, did as he was told.

So it's definitely to do with company. He's the same with any horse, the only one he didn't behave like that with was an older and rather fierc horse my friend used to ride. Harley met him when he was still young and this other horse was always the boss.

Any ideas how I can get this sorted? I thought riding out with Apollo every week would help, but it hasn't made any difference at all. I'm also wondering if it is to do with being gelded late, and wondering if he might be a rig or still have some hormones floating about!!
I'm not overly concerned about the broncing/rearing, because he never does it unless we are in company, and SO FAR I've always managed to sit it out and get him back. It's not nice, and I don't want it to turn into a habit though, so I'll carry on being very firm with him when he does it.

I just want to be able to have a relaxed and comfy hack out with friends!! At the moment I daren't put anyone else on him, which means I never get to ride Apollo.
Any advice will be very gratefully recieved.

[jojoebony]

Sorry, don't have any useful advice.
Just wanted to say I hope you get sorted, it certainly sounds like you're doing the right thing.
Good luck!
Jo

[greydales]

Hi Jane, I think if all you have ever done since having Harley is ride him out on his own then it's probably not surprising he acts in such a way in company, because he hasn't had enough exposure to it.

Horses and ponies do need to be exposed to every kind of situation, which means riding out on their own, and in company. It sounds as if this is just a rare occurence for him which is highly exciting!

I don't think there is a quick fix to it, apart from regular riding out with a sensible and non-reactive partner, which it sounds like Apollo is. What were you doing when Harley started the broncing - were you just walking, trotting or cantering? I think yes, you have to be firm with him when he behaves like this.

My horse Pip was an absolute maniac in lots of company and I went through much the same as you (probably even worse ) but after a LOT of quiet hacking with Dan he gradually turned into a more sensible hack. But, I would never have been able to take him hunting, or anything which involved a lot of other horses as he would have been totally off his head! I remember once going on an Easter weekend ride with 12 other horses - we started the ride in walk and Pip was going nuts, and it took over an hour before he calmed down!! He had to be in front as well, if he had been behind I dread to think what would have happened but I could eventually take him out with another two or three horses and he was good as gold.

Harley does sound like a dominant character and perhaps a bit insecure. If I was you I would continue to hack out with Apollo but keep it slow and steady, and only up the pace if you feel he is ready for it!

Good luck!

[harleydales]

We only walked the whole time!! He was wanting to trot/jog when he started broncing. The last few times we've been out with dear Apollo we've just walked.

I think time is the key, just keep at it through the winter.

[greydales]

Another thing to think about also is that if most of your riding out alone with Harley is in faster paces then he isn't used to being held back and this is his way of protesting - when Pip was young he would rear if I tried to hold him back too much.

What's Harley like if you both trot - or haven't you tried this yet??!!

[harleydales]

If we both trot, he trots REALLY REALLY REALLY fast and we end up miles in front unless I ride him really well and do lots of buttock and thigh clenching which totally does my back in. So we tend to walk! Canter turns into the Grand National.......

He is used to doing a lot of trotting whilst out though, because of the long distance stuff we do, so I wondered if there was an element of frustration in there. Maybe I should ride him out on his own on a Saturday, and in company on a Sunday, so that he's had his blast?

[NFK Dumpling]

A friend of mine, who is old enough to have worked the land with horses, always told me "You want to take that pony across that ploughed field and make him keep going" when James went through a particularly manic phase.

I never did though.

If he's fairly fit you may find that blasting him around on Saturday doesn't help.

[merlinalison]

Don't know if it would be feasible for you to try either of the following if you haven't already (or if they would work...):

Plan your hack in two halves (preferably loops like a figure of eight with the yard in the middle. and -initially anyway- with the first half being much longer than the second - even if the second is just riding a loop around a field in company before he's allowed to stop) Do the first half alone and at a fairly strenuous pace and then join up with another horse for the second piece when he should (hopefully) be a little less excited. Gradually make the first half shorter and the second longer if he stays calm. Once the two halves are about equal in length if he's still calm try upping the tempo a little in the second half.

If you have somewhere to school try schooling alone and then having someone come in and initially just stand still in the middle, then if he stays calm for that next time try working in open order. Once he stays calm during all of that build up to working as a ride or doing some formation riding. Again I would try always riding alone at first and then gradually increasing the amount of time the other horse is there for. Don't know if riding to music would help him to stay calm too?

[harleydales]

You could have something there, Alison, as when I do distance and we catch up with someone or vice versa, he's not half so bad about the company.

[dalesponyrider]

He sounds like D. She is also very dominant in company. I was going to suggest something similar to Alison - ride him out on his own first - quite fast, to knock the edge off him and then go back and collect the company! Or else lunge him first making him work pretty hard. That way you don't get exhausted yourself!

[fran]

sam likes to be the dominant one in company, although it doesnt sound as if hes as bad as harley. he puts his ears back if someone is in front of him, and if we trot he charges ahead at very fast speed so that noone can over take him, and if they do he sometimes puts in the odd buck and flys to go in front lol. but he doesnt kick, although he likes to bite ponys bums, necks etc. hes very cheeky lol.
but saying that he is the biggest wuss ever on his own and can be quite nappy, but has got better ocver the past couple of months, i think this could be because im not a big wuss anymore and get off/turn around and go home etc lol. only probz i get now is him tankin off when we go for a canter in the big field back to the gate and act like hes going to jump it and then slams all on so i nearly go over the gate without him lol.

Is it when you go out with just one other horse? or with a few? and are they generally fast hacks? All i could think off is maybe as you go out more in company he might get better?

I also used to just school sam in the arena first to get the edge of him then go out, this seemed to work. not much help i know lol.
fran

[harleydales]

I wouldn't go out with more than 1 other horse!!! Wouldn't dare!! If I end up in a bunch on a distance ride it's unbearable and I either whizz on ahead or hang right back to let them get out of the way - it's meant to be FUN not a battle!

Our hacks on our own are mainly training and fittening ones, so they are lots of trotting. With company, because the other riders aren't so experienced, it tends to be slower.

Might try lungeing for a while before we go out and see if that helps.

[jec248]

I have a similar problem. Its got to the stage where nobody wants to ride out with me. because their horses start to play up too. If I take Magic anywhere in the trailer and she see other horses when she comes out, its as if she is another pony. ( She is ok if I have a lesson with another) Unless I ride alone, 'Pleasure Rides' are anything but a pleasure!!! When we are alone she is perfect.

[harleydales]

I've been out twice more since I first posted, and he seems to be getting the message at last! As long as I let him be a little in front, so Apollo's head is behind Harley's saddle, it's OK.
I know H is dictating terms to me but it makes for a calmer ride and so much more fun so I'm inclined to let him.

[mostlysunny]

Sounds just like Teddy!! You have my sympathies... its the hardest thing to ride.

With Ted the more I shorten my reins and try to slow him, the faster he goes and the more he resists against it. I am doing lots of schooling, giving the reins, slowing the pace, giving the reins to try and stop him taking everything on at top speed and get him used to altering speeds within the pace when I ask him. Its really hard though and as much about reeducating me as him. Patience of a saint job my instructor calls it.

Glad to hear you are making progress. We have been working on this for over a year now and making very baby steps!!