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Post by jay on May 12, 2006 7:52:31 GMT -1
I was wondering if you'd mind giving me some advice on which bits you'd recommend for Jay. I'm currently riding him in a kk loose ring snaffle (aurigan with lozenge) which I'm extremely happy with for hacking out, schooling and jumping. Since using this bit he's become a lot more comfortable in his mouth and doesn't lean on my hands so much.
However, our problem lies with when we're out on fun rides etc where there are lots of other horses. He gets very excited and strong and leans on the bit. In his snaffle there's no way I'd be able to stop him quickly if I needed to! So I've had to resort to using a gag which someone had lent me. We used it on the ring below the snaffle ring and I found him a lot easier to control and a lot lighter in my hands! But I can't help thinking that using a gag is a bit of an 'overkill'. It seems to be a big step up from his snaffle, plus I've heard bad things about how severe a gag can be.
I'd be really grateful for any advice you could give me on what bits I could try.
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Post by JoM on May 12, 2006 8:23:41 GMT -1
I'm not a gag lover - I'll be honest! And that is a big step! The gag is an elivator bit - so you may find he will start sticking his head in the air when you start to use it.
Can you not find the same bit as what you have, but in a pelham format? Therefore, you will have the curb if you need it, but can ride in the normal bit for the main of the ride. The curb brings the head in rather than forcing it up. I ride in a straight bar snaffle, which is as much use as a chocolate fireguard to be honest. When I do pleasure rides, I up to a straight bar mullen mouth pelham. Ride on the top rein, but the curb is there if required!
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Post by dalesponyrider on May 12, 2006 9:08:05 GMT -1
I would give EXACTLY the same advice as Jo!
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Post by jay on May 12, 2006 9:49:53 GMT -1
Thanks for the great advice Jo and Linda. I don't like the gag either, but it was just a temporary fix really. A pelham does sound like a good plan. I've never ridden with double reins before though. I'm hoping to book myself some lessons soon so I'll try and get hold of one to try when I've got some supervision. Jay does seem to like the aurigan mouthpiece, so I guess I'll have to break the bank to get the pelham version...ouch!
Just another question if you don't mind....I'm hoping to try and do a few local shows with him this summer (neither of us have done any showing before!). Will I be able to use the pelham then, or would I be better sticking to his snaffle? I'm not really sure what classes we'd be eligable to do yet because he's partbred Dales, but eventually I'd like to try a working hunter class (bit optimistic at the moment though!)
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Post by JoM on May 12, 2006 10:23:13 GMT -1
The only time you cant use a pelham is prelim dressage and if it is stipulated in the rules for that particular class in the show. You will probably notice that most M&M competitors ride in a pelham. It will only be something like family pony that will stipulate a snaffle bridle. But, it will be on the class information on the schedule. Not sure the stipulations on working hunter - that is way out of my league as it incorporates JUMPS!!!!!!
Double reins are a doddle once you have used them a few times. Just remember to wear gloves with them as they do make you fingers ache if not! They certainly make you put your thumbs on top too!!! LOL
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Post by jay on May 12, 2006 10:46:18 GMT -1
Ooh sounds like double reins may do me some good then...I do have very lazy hands. Think I look more like I'm riding a motorbike than a horse!
I'd have to try and borrow a pelham or buy a cheapy for the time being. I've just looked at a website....£140 to get one with kk ultra mouthpiece! Why does he have such expensive tastes?!?
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Post by greydales on May 12, 2006 12:23:20 GMT -1
Are you talking about a three ring snaffle (or dutch gag) - if so I would not say it is an elevator bit, it puts pressure on the poll and the lower the ring you use then the greater the leverage on the poll. I found it a very useful bit for our first pony who could take off like a racehorse when the mood took her, and she had much better brakes in this bit!
A bit is only as severe as the hands that use it and ANY bit can be severe (IMO there is no such thing as a 'kind' bit!). I would say if your horse is easier to control and you don't have to use as much rein pressure then there is no reason to change the bit. If you are being lighter with your hands then you are being 'kinder' to the horse than if you were using your normal bit and pulling hard!
If you are looking for a pelham version of your current bit you may find that it does not give you as much stopping power as the dutch gag, due to the double joints negating the effect of the curb.
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Post by jay on May 12, 2006 12:58:01 GMT -1
Hi Gill - yes it is one of the 3 ringed ones, sorry I'm not very good with the different bits! I haven't used it on the bottom ring though, just on the one below the 'snaffle' ring. I have found that has been all we have needed. Am I right in thinking that with the poll pressure, but not using the lower ring(s) that it would have a similar effect to the hanging cheek snaffles?
Sorry for all the questions....its just so difficult to know what to try for the best! I don't like to use much rein pressure because I don't like to be pulling at his mouth all the time. Thats why I'm so pleased with the kk snaffle for normal day to day riding...he seems much more comfortable in it because he's not trying to evade it and I think he's starting to use his back end much more rather than being so heavy on his forehand
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Post by flintfootfilly on May 12, 2006 13:04:32 GMT -1
I'm always curious about bits. I always used to think a gag was more severe than a pelham, but I don't think that's the case now. Both really SHOULD be used with 2 sets of reins, so you can use them on the mildest "setting" as your norm, and only choose to bring in more control/leverage as and when you need it. ...... though I've not noticed many people riding off 2 reins when using a 3 ring gag.
Both the 3 ring gag and the pelham give you the option of a snaffle action, with no leverage, or a leverage action on the poll(on the curb rein or middle/lower ring), but the pelham ALSO has the curb chain which can come into play as yet another level of control.
I started riding with 2 reins a year or two back, and thought I'd find it really awkard, but it was just fine. Do it 3 times and you'll feel much more relaxed about it. Worth having your "normal" type of rein as the snaffle rein, and then having something that feels totally different as your leverage rein (for want of a better term!), so there's no mistaking them even when you're going at speed and can't look down to check which is which.
Sarah
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Post by JoM on May 12, 2006 13:06:55 GMT -1
This is a link for a write up on the gag en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gag_bitThey put accross much better what I was trying to say about it elevating the head! LOL |
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Post by greydales on May 12, 2006 13:11:58 GMT -1
Yes Jay the principle is the same, they both exert poll pressure, although the dutch gag has the option of more leverage due to it's three rings and is potentially more severe. I would say if it's brakes you need and this is doing the trick without you having to haul on his mouth, then stick with it! I also like the KK sprenger bits, they are my favourite. You can get similar styles from www.neueschule.co.uk/ only they are cheaper! |
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Post by jay on May 12, 2006 13:20:26 GMT -1
Thanks for the link. The more you read about bits the more you want to find out! Next time we're out 'at speed' in company I'll definately try a 2nd rein on the dutch gag, then we can take it from there I guess. I'll feel happier knowing I've got the 'reserve' there if I need it, but not use it all the time. But I'll definately try and borrow a pelham to try out too. Its good to have options!
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Post by jay on May 12, 2006 13:28:46 GMT -1
Thats for that Gill. I'll probably try one of the neue schule bits if I do move away from the dutch gag. I would really like to try another bit with the kk mouthpiece but it makes it very expensive if I'm only using it occasionally! The neue schule ones do look very similar.
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Post by greydales on May 12, 2006 13:29:00 GMT -1
I stand to be corrected! I was always under the impression that the dutch gag wasn't technically a gag such as the first bit in your link Jo, but I see it is under the same 'species'! When we used this bit on our pony she never raised her head, it always made her drop her poll, although we never used it on the bottom ring.
If you are very worried about the severity of it though Jay, you should use two reins in the same way you would a pelham so that the 'gag' only comes into effect when you need it.
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Post by JoM on May 12, 2006 13:44:02 GMT -1
Gill, I only know about the 3 ring gag as Lisa uses one on Lea and our instructor HATES it! Lea can toss her head about a bit and she thought the gag wasnt helping! However, it has the braking system she needs LOL I believe she has tried her in a french link hanging cheek as well and she went well in that - but cant remember how well the brakes worked! I agree that the bit is only as strong as the person using it though!
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