If you cross a grey with a bay....

[Debbie]

Can someone help me with the genetics block on here?? I know the grey can be Gg or GG with the grey gene being dominant.

But does anyone know the Bay gene? Is bay dominant over the black gene?? And which would be dominant, the bay or grey gene??

....I can see my high school science teacher shaking his head at me over this one...

[rose]

Most of the bright bays come through the grey lines.
If you cross a bay with a grey you get a 50% chance of getting either.

With the dominant colours, black is recessive to all but Chestnut and dark colours are usually recessive to light colours and also grey is a dominant colour.
But each is individual and it's mainly pure luck.

Misty (grey) has only one full sister who is grey out of the 4 full sisters together. The other 2 are Black and Brown and they are all a black stallion crossed with a grey mare.

[Deleted]

Violet's foal looks to stay bay and he is from Violet which is grey (had bay gene), and Dan who is homozygous black (he was tested!).

[PonyGirl]

How is the foal doing?

[Deleted]

they are both doing very well. The bay colt is a month older than the black colt, and he is a brick wall. The black colt is starting to fill into his large joints and legs, but has Dan's pretty pony head and small ears. The bay colt is thick and stout with large bone and joints, but has more of Violet's horsey style head. Both are real characters and are very easy going and very loving.

[Debbie]

I'm just curious, but with Violet, did you test for the bay gene?? I've heard of the DNA testing being done in the US, but have yet to hear where you get it done, or how much it costs.

Lovely to hear how the boys are doing!!!

Thanks for the replies

[PonyGirl]

Thanks for the update on the boys!

[shiatsudales]

Black, bay and grey are all independent of each other.

Your baseline coat colour is Black or Chestnut and is denoted by the letter E. An EE horse is pure black, like most Dales I would imagine. An ee horse is a chestnut. An Ee horse is black as E (black) is dominant over e (chestnut).

Have there ever been chestnut ponies in the Dales breed? There may well be genes in the pool that are hidden. It'd be interesting to get a grant and do some testing to see.

Bay is a modifier that 'tells' the black colouring where it should be. If a horse is AA or Aa then it will be bay, the dominant A dictates that the black colouration from the E gene is only expressed in the points, the rest of the horse is bay.

Grey is a different thing again. Debbie was right in that it's G and is dominant. Both GG and Gg horses will eventually grey out regardless of their original coat base color. there's some talk that GG greys out faster than Gg and I've seen this in my own experience but I don't know whether there's a sound, scientific basis for it.

[Debbie]

Yikes, I didn't realize the bay was a modifying gene...so that really can throw a spanner into the works.

I don't recall any records whatsoever of the chestnut (and resulting palomino/buckskin dilutes) being recorded for the dales ....or fell for that matter. But if the chestnut is recessive, that's not to say a chestnut foal couldn't crop up from dark parents on occasion. Personally, I've never heard of a dales foal being born chestnut.

I'm beginning to wonder just how straightforward the DNA testing is too....

[rose]

I'm sure the dales have had chestnuts before.

edited to add:

Dales have had Chestnuts, skewbald and dun. This was around 1916-1926.

[Debbie]

Dales have had Chestnuts, skewbald and dun. This was around 1916-1926.

Seriously that 'soon'?? I wonder if it was because of the improvements done to the breed during the 18th century with the outcrossings to the hackneys, clydesdales, etc, etc.... ??

[rose]

Well the dales are an "improved" breed. In one of the Dales Despatchs it gives more details about it. But they had quite a lot of different colours. It's only quite recently (1945-47) that they had just the 5 colours.

[harleydales]

Harley was jet black when he was young, but bays out in the summer now. This year he is a deep brown already. He's also getting dapples on his rump! Below his knees/hocks, his face and mane and tail stay black all the time.

[Debbie]

Nancy's Knight does that...bleaches all sorts of different colours. And I think its Gill's Saturn that does the same.

You've a pony of a different colour

[Deleted]

Most of the Dales fade in the sun. I rather mine a bit faded then penned up all day.I have not seen any in person that were jet black that stayed in the sun all day