Bolshy 4yr old !!

[Deleted]

Hi
I have a question on behalf of a mate. She has a 4yr old 15.1 gelding.

He is broken to saddle, she has hacked him out on her own, but now he has gone really bolshy.
She can't even lead him without him trying to tank off with you- the minute you try to hold him back, he swings his bum towards you and kicks out.
Last week he continuously bucked with her and she eventually fell off.
She then took him into the school- where he decked her again.

I walked my horse on foot and she followed for company for her horse- confidence .
We were just testing the (track) when there was a wet dip in the ground. My horse jumped/leaped over the dip - I looked back to see if she was ok and her horse had pushed her into the fence - she lost balance - he swung his bum out- her leg slipped underneath and fell to the ground- I thought she was going to get trampled- looked very nasty.

He escaped and she lay motionless for a split second- :oshe cried out - phew !!!

What I'm trying to get at is-
when he's on the lunge- when HE thinks he's had enough- he will turn towards you and charges at you- hence lunge lines getting tangled.
This has now absolutely cheesed her off and she's losing confidence with him.
I have tried lungeing him aswell and just as he's looking as if he's going to stop- I crack the whip and off he goes- like an express train out of control !!!

I have told her that he is testing her and really she has got to show who is boss- as he's getting stronger/maturer every day, but I think now she realises having a youngster is a lot of commitment/time/patience.

She will watch me lunging my horse ( who when I got her hadn't done any schooling at all- she didn't know how to go in a straight line- never mind a circle- but I spend time with her every day, she was very green- she was 7yrs when I bought her.

My horse defo knows I'm her Mum- she doesn't get in my space - as I won't allow it.

What can she do to get over this exciteable young man??
Would like to add he goes out every day in paddock- so not cooped up in stable.
Thanks - any advice would be appreciated.
Jayne x

[Deleted]

Has anyone got any thoughts /advice? please

[Anna]

Get some good professional assistance from someone you trust would be my first thought, it sounds like extreme trying it on but it needs curbing before someone gets hurt. Is there anyone that can come and help lay down the law so to speak and also help instruct the lady 2/3 times a week to start with until this is sorted.

My second thought would be only lead (for now) on a bit until the horse realises that walking out does not mean tanking off and at least that would eliminate the risk of being cow-kicked as that has got to stop before the poor lady gets hurt.

Turning in on the lunge is a massive no-no and your friend is going to have to get sharper, most will try it on and either turn on the lunge or turn in when you begin but you have to be about 7 steps ahead of them, learn and watch the horses body language and send them on until you decide when its time to stop. Lots of clear definate voice commands too.

Also maybe have a look at feed? Has she just changed it recently? Is there too much excess energy kicking around?

[olivia]

I'm not a huge expert, so am quite happy to be corrected!!! All I can give is my experience with Tilly, who went through the terrible 3's 4s and 5's!!!!!

With regards to lunging - Tilly did exactly that - get bored and turn in and charge/read at me - very scary!!! First thing - I always lunged in body protector and hat - cumbersome, but necessary. However the best thing I did was teach her to long line with two lines. That way if she did turn in I had that outside rein there in emergency to pull her round. I'm afraid a couple of times I did have to get quite rough with that outside rein, and really lean on it to stop her spinning in. But very quickly she learnt not to do this and got the gist of going round in circles. You do have to be careful not to hang on that rein tho so they either have the incorrect bend, or learn to lean on it. It's a balance of having it there as a contact for them to work into, and using it more strongly only if they turn in. Once she'd got the idea with two reins I went back to lunging with side reins. I think the first couple of times I had to remind her to stay out by flicking the lunge whip at her shoulder (advantage of having a horse like Tilly - I could be quite forceful with the whip without her getting stressed out/racing off - but then maybe if she'd been a more sensitive soul I wouldn't have needed to be so forceful!!!!)

With regards to the being bolshy in hand. I went through all sorts with her - be nice halters, clicker training, rope halters, bridles etc. She never was try and lash out at me - her's was just a point blank refusal to believe that I was supposed to be in charge!!!! She would just tank off after what ever she fancied - and if that involved walking right over me she would. I'm afraid the only thing that worked to give me some sort of control was a chain over her nose, a long lead rope and a long schooling whip. I would also have a rope on her headcollar in the normal place which was used to do the leading, I would then only bring the chain in if she started to tank off. Although this set up meant I could lead her relative control it never actually solved the problem She would still try it on if she wanted something.

The one single thing that resolved it for me was when she got put in a field of 25 other mares and she was no longer top horse. A couple of months learning her place in the hierarchy, and suffering the equine consequences if she pushed her luck she really learnt that actually life was MUCH easier if you toed the line, and followed the leader. I wouldn't say she's perfect (Mair would give you a much better idea what she's like now), but she is 600% better than she was. It is for this reason that I am so convinced that not only should horses never be kept on their own (especially youngsters when they are learning the rules of life) but it is so much better if they can be kept with a larger group (not necessarily 25!!!) with a nice dominent mare to keep them under her hoof!!

One other thing I would always caution people with is a story of my stupidity. When I got Tilly as a rising three year old (didn't realise she was so young at the time) I had a bespoke saddle made for her from what I thought was a reputable saddle maker. She soon started with lots of bad behaviour - refusing to stand to be mounted, stiffness, bucking into canter. And several good people said "saddle saddle saddle" to which I replied "NO can't be - brand new saddle - made for her - it must fit" and to be fair physio's were not picking up any physical issues. Tilly was screaming with every method she could that the saddle was causing issues, but I ignored it because ONE professional had assured me they had provided a good service. It is only down to Tilly's wonderful nature that this didn't turn into a massive ongoing problem (although it has caused a few smaller ones). So my biggest lesson - if your horse is trying to tell you something - don't worry if a "professional" has told you nothing is wrong - always give your horse 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 20th chances and get everything checked as many times as you can.

Olivia

(PS - sorry for the essay!)

[greydales]

Has your friend had a youngster before? Some of them really do try it on and know exactly who they can take advantage of. Without meaning to appear rude it sounds as if your friend is lacking in confidence in her handling of him and he knows it. You've always got to be one step ahead of them, firm but fair, and if this horse hasn't done much in the way of ground work and knows he can get away with doing what he wants then the best way would be for your friend to get professional help at this stage, at least until the horse gains some respect and your friend gains some valuable advice.

What does she lead him in? Maybe she should lead him in a bitted bridle or controller headcollar for the time being. Having a youngster needs a LOT of commitment and patience as you say and there are no short cuts.

[Deleted]

Thanks everybody- only a quick msge as My home computer has broke down- so my BOSS is lurking in the office !!!!
She did lead him out with a bitted bridle on- but he's such a thick necked horse and she's only 5"2 !!
Will print off your comments and give them to her to read.
Our YO is an instructor- so she is going to help her-but my friend has got to be a bit more harsher with him !!
BUT her nerves are in shreds at mo- so confidence is at a low!!
Will try and get back on when BOSS isn't around to fill you in !!!
Jayne xx

[clara]

Poor thing, this is not fun but loads of good advice above. Also suggest if she doesn't make progress. Send naughty boy to proffessional to sort out and then a hand over period. I keep buying babies and they are so much work time and love to make good. A six year old with all the manners in place and a good grounding is well worth the money we pay for them!

[Deleted]

Hi
just to keep you all advisers updated.
My friend is gettting on better with her youngster.
YO has ridden him a couple of times and has discovered his problems.
She said that he is starting to listen to her and is a joy to ride- just wants to please.
It's having the know how, when dealing with a youngster isn't it .

My friend is having lessons on YO 's horse.
Taking her back to basics, confidence boost- which seems to be working for her.

She was obviously giving out the wrong signals/ commands to him- he didn't grasp what hse wanted him to do.

So thanks for all of your advice- hopefully he'll come on gr8 and she'll be able to enjoy him again.
Jxx