It's all gone Pete Tong, what now, please help?

[Deleted]

Some people will probably remember said stroppy cob from the old message board, and lots of kind people gave me some good advice.

Anyway, I have worked hard, and he is now lovely to lead, which is a big improvement. All summer I have lead him out while my daughter rode out on our other pony, and also on his own, have led the kids around on him and they have led each other round in the 'school' part of the field, it all seemed to be going really well.

Wednesday they went back to school, so I walked him up to a bench on the track outside the field, that he has walked up so many times, I got on and off a few times, he got lots of clicks and treats, and to finish he walked a few steps (ridden) and I put him away, after lots of praise etc and some grazing in hand.

Thursday went off to repeat out little routine, planning to stay on a few more steps, he didn't seem in quite such a good mood, but led nicely, positioned himself at the bench and went through the getting on and off routine, then he went about four steps (less than Wednesday) and stopped, I didn't give him anything 'cos I hadn't clicked, I asked him gently to move forward and he bucked and turned round. Turned him back to face the original way, then got off and started again. This time he did three bigger bucks that felt like he meant it, managed to slither off and I am ashamed to say gave up.

So the baby steps/clicker plan is now out the window and my confidence is once more in tatters. I don't want to be bucked off, too old for one thing.

He has had his teeth done, had his back done by a physio and an EMRT Bowen lady, tried treeless, even tried an animal communicator (in desperation). Why is he such a git, I am asking so little of him, he gets amply rewarded with praise and sweeties for the little I ask him to do

[fran]

i don't have the experience to answer you. but listening to you sounds just like me. i could have written your thread myself lol it does seem to be the kinder we are the less they appreciate us.

i am sure you will get lots of good advice on here , keep us updated - good luck
karen

[shaklana]

remind us of the story behind your problems with your boy. how old is he? what ridden work has he done before?

[Deleted]

He is eight, and he came with 'issues' about being ridden when we bought him at age three, due to the previous owners backing him in a too narrow saddle (he had white patches where the tree points go, poor boy. I have tried hard with saddles and back specialists, and according to them he is fine, the saddle is fine (and I've not just taken their word for it, I have ran my hand under the panels with my daughter up, and can't feel any areas of increased pressure or anything).

I can only deduce that either his back is absolutely dreadful, (although that doesn't seem possible if the way he bombs around the field and looks totally unconcerned at being girthed up is anything to go by) or that he has decided that he doesn't want to be ridden, unless he has another horse with him or someone on the ground to walk with him. After all the leading maybe he is thinking 'Why can't the idle cow just walk, she's got legs!' I'm not heavy (9 1/2 stone) and he is 15 hh tall and wide, so I don't think it would kill him to carry me 10 yards without a strop. He stropped his way back to the field - still leading nicely in the right place, but I could feel him chucking his head up and down on the end of the reins, in a bad-tempered manner, although I didn't shout at him or anything, maybe I should have but I was too broken hearted at the collapse of my plans. The best laid plans of mice and men eh?

My OH used to ride him, but gave up after he refused to carry him in the treeless saddle (sbs). I have always been a bit wary of him to be truthful, he can be a bit unpredictable. If I could turn back time I'd not have bought him, but I love him now (despite his antics) and don't want to sell him, but I want to be able to ride him and now he's grown up a bit I think I should be able to manage it, without the bucking anyway. He is lovely apart from this, my daughter calls him her 'cuddle-buddy'.

[admin]

Hiya,

Were you trying to ride away or towards home? I'd be inclined to start off by riding towards home That way he's getting that reward.

Also when you go out take a set of long lines, so if you do have to get off you can stick him in them and get him going away from home - that way he doesn't "win".

If he is reluctant to go away without a horse or person to lead him I would suggest doing a LOT of longlining. Help build up his confidence at being in the lead.

I'd also do quite a bit of handy pony type activities - in hand to start off with, then in the long lines. This is a great way to build up his confidence that he can trust you and that he can take the lead in scarey situations.

Sorry if you've already tried all this - it's just what my plan of action would be in that situation.

Good luck

Olivia

[Deleted]

Thanks Olivia, that is a really good idea that I'd not thought of. I've never longlined as I've been told it's really difficult, but I think now is a time to get an instructor to teach me, and a friend has given me a phone number of someone local, so that will be a good starting point.

I was trying to ride away from home - doh - didn't think it to be a problem as he is very enthusiastic to lead up the track, but then going first as in being ridden is obviously very different - we were facing towards home when he stuck the threee big bucks in, though (thank goodness there wasn't a fourth).

[admin]

Hi Kady - what part of the UK are you in - there are quite a few very experience long liners on this board who may be able to come out and help you. Long lining really isn't hard - the biggest problem (in my opinion) is getting the horse to accept the long lines down their sides. Once that's done it's a doddle.

Olivia

[Deleted]

Between Ravenscar and Scarborough, in North Yorkshire.

I really want to sort this out one way or another, I am thrilled my daughter has become interested in horses and I really want to go on some 'proper' rides out with her - not rides that last as far as I can reasonably walk. I have felt so cross with myself sometimes walking while she rides, it's time to sort these issues out, and if I can't, to let someone who can have him.

Last Summer I sent him away after a nearly identical episode, they were pretty tough on him (he didn't buck once while he was there) and he came home very humble, but it didn't help long term as you can see. I don't want to go down that road again. I would love to be able to send him to Michael Peace, but it's beyond my financial means and he is so far away too, I think it's £57 a day or aroundabouts.

I always feel guilty spending money on the horses when they are 'my' thing and I have a family.

If I could go back in time I would not have bought him, he was a nightmare the day I went to try him, bucked as soon as I sat down, then planted and refused to move - what was I thinking?!

I don't want him to do it because he does it 'or else' - I want him to enjoy it too. Whenever we go out we always get off and let them graze a nice piece of grass, so that there is something in it for them, I am hardly a slavedriver!

[flintfootfilly]

Why not book some lessons with Charlie Wilson at Sinnington Manor (they have a website too. It should come up if you Google it). Not too far from you. They have an outdoor school, plus farmland to ride in so could take you through all sorts of situations with him, and in particular, they would probably focus on ensuring he respects you in groundwork initially so that you can fully check out how he's going to react to being ridden before you get on board. It sounds a bit as though he's just learned that he can buck to keep you quiet........ and that association will need to change before you can ride him safely. Does he kick up at all when you send him on whilst on the lunge?

Sarah

[Deleted]

He can buck if he gets frustrated when being led, although he's not done it for a while, it's his answer to everything if he's in a bad mood.

I don't have any transport, but I've emailed Charlie and asked him how much it would be to come here and give us a session, if I can afford it.

[JoM]

Funnily enough, I was clearing out my pm's the other day and wondered how you and super sulker were getting on!!!!

I would beat him with a big stick LOL

He is really testing his boundaries isnt he! With the greatest of respect to you - do you think he is taking the p*ss out of you, because he knows he can!!! Dancer will try it on with every single rider that gets on - and if he can get away with it - he will - usually with his a*s in the air!

You said that when you sent him away he didnt do the bronking displays - because they were tough with him.

I honestly think you are going to have to take a really firm hand with him, let him get away with nothing and stick to your guns. The problem is he is shattering your confidence! If you can find an instructor that will come to you, I think you would really benefit from that. Unfortunately we are now getting to the dark nights and bad weather season, which will cut down your time with him.

I agree with Olivia's 'ride home, not away' theory and long lining is always beneficial. I get my hands confused though!

Have you tried getting someone to go out on a bike infront of you! D hacks out alone under duress, but really enjoys himself if my OH goes out with us on the bike. It is like additional protection on the ground for him! He doesnt have to pretend to be brave then! LOL

[Deleted]

Yes, I think he is trying to bully me and be the boss, he's given up on the ground 'cos I'm ahead of him there, so that's now OK, but once I'm on he has totally got the upper hand 'cos I'm a coward. We don't call him super sulker, we now refer to him as that black b$%%$$d (not in front of the kids of course). Or in anyones' earshot in case we're accused of racism!

[akehurstannabel]

Hi! I have just read an article in horse and rider called "painful memories" about horses showing aggression when they exect ain because it has happened before. I have finished the magazine so pm me your address and i will send it to you. Jo x

[julie]

No - think he is jusyt a stroppy sod who knows his own mind, wish i was nearer. I woyul go back a step and get a pressurehalter. Take him out and walk him miles - he seems to be used to going only short distances. Take a stick and an attitude and walk him as far as you can, then some more. Take him out all the time as often as possible. He needs to learn to gp forwards when you want where you want. You are going to have to do this yourself, to get him to respect you as I feel that is the issue. When he walks anywhere thyen get someone to go with you and either put someone on him and lead him or get on yourself and get him led forwards nd keep on going until he starts to get tired then goi a few more steps, get off and walk home. I would not agree with walking toiewards home - fine if he is scared but he isn't, he is in charge.

If you are concerned then get in an instructor pronto, but get bold and do not letr this go on. Also do not let the kids handle him unsupervised, handle him yourself for a while and take control of him. |You can do this

[Deleted]

Right, stroppy cob update. Charlie is coming a week Tuesday, he is in the area already so it is £5 for the travel, and then £35 an hour.

In the interim a very nice girl I recently met has been helping me out, and we have been lunging him - the first day was a nightmare, he would do a circle then have a complete tantrum, bucking on the spot, half rears etc, then he would stand and look at you!! Anyway she just kept insisting that he was going to do it, and then I had a turn and he was even worse for me - reared full up, I could see the underneath of his soup plates, what a naughty boy. Kept at him though, and as soon as he'd done one nice circle we quit while we were ahead.

Yesterday he was vastly improved, thought about having a strop a couple of times and then decided it would be too much effort, and today he was very good, turned his bum at us once and that was it.

He did look very impressive rearing, like a lardier version of the Lloyds horse!! I wasn't scared though, amazingly, but when I'm on his back it's a different matter!! When you say walk him miles are you saying I am to walk or riding? He is quite happy to be lead out and walk miles, I just think he thinks that I should walk too.

He is definitely wearing a humbler expression, hopefully his view of the world is slowly changing.

I have read so much stuff about 'positive horse magic' etc and the evils of negative reinforcement - all this positive stuff hasn't got me very far, unless I'm doing it wrong? It is all very well behaving yourself for clicks etc when in the right mood, but ask him to do anything he doesn't want to do and he's not going to do it for a click and a polo, so it seems.