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Post by tinastephenson on Sept 16, 2006 20:16:25 GMT -1
We have had some devastating news this week, Charity has been diagnosed with navicular in both feet!
When Stacy bought Charity in Germany, she unfortunately went lame only months later, she was diagnosed with navicular in the near fore and with advice from her vet was de-nerved.
she has gone brilliantly for over 18 months although Stacy has always been very careful not to overdo any exercise on hard ground or jump her.
A couple of weeks ago we competed in a small trec competition and all went well but Charity unfortunately lost a shoe. We did not think too much of it as we always carry a boa boot for such emergencies with her.
She went lame a couple of days later, she had a miniscule cut on her heel which we treated just in case that was the cause but there was not any other obvious symptoms or causes to her being lame.
She actually seemed to be improving but Stacy took her to the vet to be sure and to cut a very long consultation short, after many nerve blocks, lunging and running up and down, the vet told her she definately had developed the navicular in the off fore plus the near fore had re-developed feeling.
She is having egg bar shoes fitted this week and we have been told to give her bute and try to ride a few days after this.
We are so so worried for her, she is a very special mare to us, and has given Stacy so much confidence and love.
If anyone knows of anything else we can do to help prolong Charity having a pain free life please let us know?
Stacy know that Charity will probably have to be turned away but it is not easy!
Any advice gratefully received......
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Post by harveydales on Sept 17, 2006 5:24:54 GMT -1
Oh no, I'm so sorry to read this. I know you have been through a lot with Charity and love her dearly. I'm afraid I can't offer any advice on Navicular but I do know from my scouring the internet for other reasons that treatments and management of Navicular have come on in leaps and bounds and it is not neccesarily the end of the road. I know there are others on this board with more knowledge on this subject and I'm sure are able to give you advice.
Sending healing vibes for Charity.
xxx
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Post by bevbob on Sept 17, 2006 11:57:56 GMT -1
Oh what a shame. I havent a lot of experience with it but my friends horse developed intermitent lameness shortly after she had bought hers. He was always okish to ride but when he began being slightly lame a lot, it took 2 years of vets and a lot of money to diagnose it having nerve blocks, scans of various sorts and it was too far gone to try the Tildren trial. I would ask your vet about tildren.
My friends horse had to be PTS as she said if he wasnt sound on 1 bute a day it was time to say goodbye. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but she did have him 7 years altogether and it was another year after diagnosis when he finaly went.
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Post by bevbob on Sept 17, 2006 12:05:49 GMT -1
That sounds awful, I didnt want to say he was PTS and it may not be the case for some but I just wanted to add my experiences. Sorry if it sounds awful. He did have a lovely life with my friend and did regularly compete in dressage competitions when he was sound enough.
She did use devils claw rather than bute at first too.
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Post by flintfootfilly on Sept 17, 2006 18:50:20 GMT -1
It might be worth having a look on some of the barefoot websites (Pete Ramey, Jaime Jackson) and reading up on their views on navicular. You'll probably know already that some people call it navicular syndrome, rather than navicular disease, and there's some debate over whether it's actually a disease in its own right, or whether it is purely the result of the effects of an inappropriate foot trim over a prolonged period. Here's a link to a Pete Ramey article (he's an American farrier, turned barefoot trimmer): www.hoofrehab.com/end_of_white_line_disease.htm#NavicularIf you also look at lots of pictures of feet in good shape/balance, then you will also probably notice that the feet of navicular horses tend to have high heels and long toes. Sometimes, all they need is a more appropriate trim to (gradually) lower the heel height and bring the toe length down, to encourage a heelfirst landing without placing undue stress on the flexor tendon and navicular bone. I'm a great believer that a good trim can make the world of difference to a horse who's been diagnosed as navicular, but equally if the stresses on the foot have been wrong for a long time, then it's going to be more difficult if the internal structures have already been damaged. Sarah |
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Post by shaklana on Sept 17, 2006 19:41:08 GMT -1
the current treatments for navicular are little different to those for laminitis: get the toes as short as possible, keep the horse lean on a highfibre diet, encourage movement using painkillers/boots/pads/frog support/heel support/remedial shoes as appropriate. good luck, it is certainly recoverable in many cases. barefoot turnout alone can work.
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Post by The Moo on Sept 18, 2006 6:25:33 GMT -1
I'd second looking at the barefoot thing.
I don't have experience of it myself but there are many success stories about it on the barefoot threads, def worth checking into.
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Post by akehurstannabel on Sept 18, 2006 7:11:38 GMT -1
I know this isn't that helpful but might give you a start. When holls had laminitis i looked through all sorts of alternative treatments and one that i tried was cush-x, which was a herbal thing. Whoever made that had a website and i'm pretty sure that they had found that "something" they did for cushings or laminitis combined with soemthing else had been shown to be helpful for navicular. Sorry thats so vague, i can't remember the ins and outs of it, but it might be worth a bit of research. We have a lovely mare at the yard who has navicular in both fore feet. She wears eggbars and is on newmarket supplement and is perfectly sound now. Good luck, I hope it works out. Jo x
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Post by bevbob on Sept 19, 2006 20:28:28 GMT -1
My friend had corrective shoeing for her horse for 12 months and then decided for him to go barefoot, he did improve without shoes more than the corrective shoeing ever helped him.
Might be worth researching.
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Post by tinastephenson on Sept 21, 2006 6:26:45 GMT -1
When Charity was first diagnosed in Germany they did try the corrective shoeing and barefoot.
Unfortunately the barefoot option is not really possible with Charity. She has terrible 'boxy' feet. although she has farriers formula every day and any amount of different oils such as keratex hoof hardener, we cannot get her feet good enough to go barefoot.
The farrier is coming out tomorrow but is very sceptical of her being able to hold egg bar shoes on. He has done wonders manageing to get her to hold normal shoes for 6 weeks (she only used to go 2 - 3 weeks before losing them!) but he feels this may be a very very difficult task!
We are giving her bute twice daily at the moment so will have to see what happens tomorrow. I really dont know where to go next if this does not work.
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Post by julie on Sept 21, 2006 21:04:51 GMT -1
In would go to your vets and get recommended a very good remedial farrier then stick by what he says. If your horse has terrible boxy feet there is a reason as with correct treatment this could be treated. I would not be over optimistic, nor would I try barefoot. I have had a horse lame for two years with navicular and this week met a farrier who does all the remedial shoeing for vets in the area who I did not know about. How I wished I had known as his treatment would have been totally different. My boy was pts after he was treated with tildren and sadly had a flare up and had to be pts same day. Though he had navicular after the 2nd mri they felt the arthritis was causing the lameness too, which had not been treated as well. Just get the best farrier you can. If your horse has boxy feet, change your farrier now to give your horse the best chance. You may be able to de nerve again, or try tildren as a very last resort.
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Post by jacquidales on Sept 23, 2006 20:54:57 GMT -1
My son rode a pony with navicular for 2 years. Under vet guidance and medication, she went very well, and after we had loaned her she made another child very happy for another 18 mths or so. I'm also aware of a number of horses who have suffered with navicular doing very well once they have gone barefoot under the guidance of a qualified and experienced barefoot trimmer.
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Post by tinastephenson on Sept 23, 2006 20:59:06 GMT -1
Problem is Charity has always had boxy feet! she had them when Stacy bought her in Germany, since then she has moved many times with the army before settling with us in Brecon. So has had many farriers and also seen many vets because of the navicular.
The farrier we have now is the best she has had, she does hold shoes now and he works well with the vet but very very difficult. with the navicular being in both legs as well.
Having said that Charity galloped around the field like a 2 year old today! but the bute could be the reason..... she is coming off that tomorrow so will have to wait and see what happens.
Bit concerned about the Tildren even if they would try it?
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Post by tinastephenson on Oct 16, 2006 21:36:54 GMT -1
Now we have another query, if anyone can shed some light? Charity has been ridden for week + with no problem, only walking and little trotting but ridden none the less.
Now, she is definaly gone toe first in walk but, when you trot her up is totaly sound!
any ideas, as we do not want to ride her but not sure which way to go next?
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Post by dalesponyrider on Oct 17, 2006 6:51:34 GMT -1
Oh gosh, I really don't know as I haven't any experience. I'm so sorry to read about poor Charity. There are others far more knowlegable than me on the board but I know my barefoot trimmer talks about success with navicular. I just wonder if it might help to talk to her on the phone? Sarah uses her as well and she seems very knowledgable and is always ready to chat and share her knowledge. If you want her number, PM me. I wouldn't go so far as to recommend any sort of treatment myself, but if it were me I would get advice from both sides of the camp as it were.
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