Training The Dressage Dales

[bellajack]

I don't know if anyone will be interested in this, but I will start it and see how it goes.

Bella is proving to be a bit of a delight to school. She is still considering her options, as you would expect of a highly intelligent not yet 5yo, but she has just worked out that instead of getting resistant and tail-swishy about leg aids ( I had been using mainly voice aids as she is very responsive to vocal commands, but you don't get many marks in a dressage test if you ride around shouting TROT) if she goes from a very light aid I don't have to keep increasing it and making her cross.

I always enjoy backing young horses, as I have found that to be the easy bit, but I get quite anxious about riding them on for the next 2-3 years as I find that this is when they are won or lost mentally.

Bella has a mouth like the softest velvet on the end of the reins and I have taught her to actively seek a contact in side reins on the lunge, but found when ridden she was practically falling on her nose. I finally realized that it was because I was trying so hard to be soft and giving the rein that she was having to follow the bit down to the ground - not very helpful of me when she was still struggling to find her balance with me on top.

I put a balance strap on the front of the saddle and put my little and ring fingers on my outside hand through it when I ask for trot, mimicking the steady, constant contact of the side rein. The improvement was instantaneous and dramatic. She is light as a feather on the end of the reins, but her contact is rock steady and she has started to carry herself with ease. (With Jack the contact still tends to come and go a bit).

It also makes me appreciate how difficult it is to keep a really steady contact. I also realized today that I have the habit of dropping the contact as a reward as soon as she is going well, and she hates that. It drops her out of balance onto her forehand and is anything but a reward. The trouble is I want them floating around effortlessly, in perfect self carriage, on a loose rein. Bit much to expect of a baby!!!!

I know, I should be doing the laminitis conference, but my brain hurts!

[greydales]

Bella sounds a very kind and willing pony, a bit like Saturn (same age as well) .

I've made the same mistakes riding mine, either with youngsters or when the horse is fussy in the mouth. My very sensitive Morgan Dancer has been extremely fussy in his mouth since I've had him and has a habit of flinging his head around (he has been a very hyped up show horse in his previous life), and I was riding on a really light contact thinking that he was objecting to the bit. But, in reality this wasn't teaching him anything and just allowing him to continue with his erratic head tossing. I've achieved much better results by taking a firmer contact (although not hard). If I think my hands are moving too much I try to keep my little fingers on the saddle! Balance straps are useful too.

I'm also trying to turn just using my shoulders rather than my hands - if you turn your shoulders on a circle (inside shoulder back, outside one forwards) then it should automatically position your hands without you having to do too much (in theory at least ;D).

Yes, the elusive self-carriage - I had a lesson on Dancer yesterday, first time I've ridden him in 5 months. In hindsight, perhaps I should have done some lunging first - he had self carriage alright but not the kind I wanted . It was like riding a pneumatic drill on speed, talk about whizzy! It took nearly 20 mins to get him to walk by which time he was lathered in sweat (so was I) but at least he didn't throw me off, bless him

[SuzieP]

LOL - self-carriage?? In my dreams! Bea is loads better than he was and we get magic moments when the reins feel like elastic and he's light in my hand, he's engaged behind and we're moving on air. I say "moments" note....... But even a few seconds is reward enough for me. We don't aspire to great things, which is just as well.

My instructor gave me a brill tip for keeping my hands still. She suggested putting a riding crop (or cane if you don't carry a crop) across my hands under my thumbs when holding the reins in the right place, holding the crop in place by my thumbs. Suddenly Bea was doing amazing corners and circles and going much, much better. I realised that my hands must have been all over the place and getting in his way. My poor boy - he puts up with a lot!!

[PonyGirl]

Sounds wonderful. Wow.

[harveydales]

LOL Gill "riding a pneumatic drill at speed"!

yes, I can relate to a lot of what you say about Bella. I have an admission - I DO use voice aids during dressage tests! I've perfected a way of whispering my aids without moving my lips - I can admit this now I'm not competing any more!

We all seem to have a similar problem with the contact and I also use my breasplate to gently hook a finger under just as you say. I think our horses are wonderful to put up with us and keep on trying to understand what the hell we are wanting them to do!

Sue - Ali read about he crop method somewhere and tried just imagining she was holding one in the way you say. It worked for her and stopped her moving her hands with every stride.

[greydales]

I have also perfected the art of ventriloquism during dressage tests lol! Trot and canter are easy to say without moving your lips but walk and whoa are a bit harder ;D

[bellajack]

Would be even more fun if you could throw your voice. You wouldn't need to be a ventriloquist and everyone would be looking at each other wondering who was doing it. Would distract the judges from any mistakes!

[harveydales]

LOL!

Gill - whoa and walk on are easy, I hum 2 long notes for whoa or to go down a pace and 2 short ones to go into walk or go up a pace. Going from say walk to canter gets a bit more complicated but possible!

[bellajack]

I know this is going in for vast generalizations, but what do you more experienced Dales trainers see as being the main difficulties in training a Dales for dressage, in general?

From the very few I have seen working, it strikes me that the usual problems with a balanced canter (are they usual?) stem from them tending to tighten up in their backs, and although their back legs look very active, they are not really stepping under enough - in trot as well - and so not really working through.

I hasten to say that I have never actually seen a Dales doing dressage; not many around here. This is just a general impression from the show ring.

Watching mine on the lunge, Bella loves to stretch down and is reasonably forward going, so I don't see this in her, but Jack does tend to tense and shorten his stride if I'm not careful.

Do you think that this is a result of being bred for a high stepping trot, or am I making too many generalizations from the few I have seen?

[greydales]

I'm no expert but I wouldn't say that there are particular difficulties in training Dales for dressage as opposed to any other breed; I'd say if the foundation training is good then the Dales is just as capable as any others of doing a good dressage test. A desirable Dales movement is to perform equal circles with front and hind legs, like wheels in motion. The Morgan horse is described as the same (probably why I like both breeds!).

Many horses and ponies, not just Dales, are not given enough time or have the proper training to build up the correct muscles for carrying themselves properly - they are taken down the quick route via gadgets such as draw reins in order to get 'an outline', which basically means their heads are cranked in but they are not using themselves as they should be. Or, they get in the habit of poking their noses and/or shuffling around on the forehand with hind legs trailing.

Not all Dales have the high stepping trot, and there are a few members on here such as Pam (Harveydales) and Kristy (Dannydales) who have competed/are competing successfully (think both have affiliated?).

Many high stepping horses and ponies I've seen can be tight in the back especially if the high trot is encouraged when it's often at the expense of the back end! I have a classic example in my Morgan, he has a very high and fast trot and also a hollow back which I'm endlessly working on, from years of being trained upside down .

Another problem a Dales might have, being a cobby type breed, is to be heavy on the forehand - but again, this is down to training. Conformation also plays a part!

[bellajack]

I know it's been done, to Advanced Medium if I remember rightly, but I just wondered if there were any common areas that they had all had to work extra hard on as a result of breed traits? In other words, are there any common areas of training that need special attention?

Perhaps this is a silly question. If so please ignore.

By the way, did you see in H&H the other week the Fell Pony - Jennifer Murtagh's Lindisfarne Drummer - who won the Advanced Medium Freestyle at the Scottish Regional Winter Championships. Way to go!!!!!

[harveydales]

I do think canter is difficult for the Dales breed. If you think, they were bred to be pack animals, carrying heavy weights for miles at walk, they needed to have heavy, strong shoulders, the high stepping would be useful as would the wide stance infront and narrow behind.

I found Harvey very naturally supple from the word go and, his natural way of going invovled, if anything, stepping under TOO much in all paces and lateral work was very easy for him. I don't know how typical Harvey is but he doesn't have the high stepping gaits and I've never really understood what is meant by "the Dales trot". When I first got him, he really couldn't canter without running into it from trot - it took a long time and lots of patient work.

They are all very short backed compared to other breeds so I suppose this has it's problems.

[greydales]

I'm just going on my own experiences, I haven't found any areas that have needed particular attention. Both Dan and Saturn are quite short backed but have no problems at all with canter, in fact Dan prefers it to trot! Despite the fact Dan had a very high trot he also had fantastic self carriage for a short fat hairy pony; he could do levade, passage and piaffe very easily (just not when I wanted it ;D). Sadly he's lost a lot of his movement since he had a tendon injury. Saturn also has lovely even paces, and will even do a halt to canter (once he's warmed up!).

Olivia and Cherry also offer canter easily on the lunge.

Perhaps as the Dales trot is a desirable thing many ponies are taught not to canter in order to develop the trot, particularly with those that drive.

[PonyGirl]

When I had Trooper he would rather TROT then canter. O god he could move. It was beautiful. Still kicking myself for selling him!

[knight]

Certainly no expert here but my experience with Knight is that he would rather canter and has learned to come off his forehand to have a nice upward springing canter. He is related to & looks a good bit like Pam's Harvey, and like Harvey has been very naturally supple (almost too much so) & is not a high stepper. Dressage schooling involving collection comes easy to him but he will never have the extravagant extensions of the purpose bred warmbloods. Good thing because I could not sit such big gaits!