Very concerned, problem with my SBS

[harveydales]

Ah, thanks Gill. I will wait for your report on your new panels with interest.

[harleydales]

Linda, Harley has white wither hairs in the winter, from a badly fitting saddle as a youngster. My fault I hate to admit. His muscles wasted behind the shoulders and it was all a mess.

BUT, I got a good saddle, fitted properly and checked regularly as the muscles started to come back - and now he has the most beautifully muscled shoulder and spine.

So it's not the end of the world, and will come right with time and correct saddle fitting. At least you noticed, I'm sure loads of people are riding in awful saddles with white hairs everyeherw and not realising.

Good luck.

[dalesponyrider]

I have just seen a photo of D on the EE home site in the Fhoenix booklet! I didn't know Heather had used her as an example, she says, "With wide flat backed horses, overweight ones such as the horse, left, and those with mature, correctly muscled backs, no padding is necessary. Use only a high wither saddle cloth."

Well she is not so overweight now! LOL!

[jacquidales]

Linda,
I think you couldn't have been more diligent over saddle fitting or sorting out D's problems so please don't beat yoursel up. The saddle does look as if it tips forward and so would be putting more presure on the front. I think some sort of padding wold be needed to even the saddle out as any saddle tipping like that would cause pressure over the withers- treeless or treed.

I bought a mare who had been ridden for several years in a treed saddle and it pressed down behind the shoulders and impinged her vertebrae. It took a long time to get her right as the previous owners never corrected the problem. I think a few white hairs, whilst not dismissing it as clearly a problem is looming, is better than the result might have been in a treed saddle. And I say that as someone who likes riding in a treed saddle.

I've always found Heather and her staff helpful, so I'm sure she will be concerned to help you and D resolve this.

On the subject of panels. I have both with my Fhoenix- flat ones and the new shaped ones. the shaped ones do give a feeling of being tipped forward, at least on flat back horses. I think the flat panels are most stable on out flat backed native types.

[julie]

I have the fhoenix too and have tried the new panels which will tip you forward if you have aflat back native.

Linda - if she was damaged she would not have the lovely muscle she has under the saddle - you have no muscle wastage at all. Looks like you have the same problem we have with the sbs - soggy front syndrome! Fern is very wide and the sbs sits on her in a similar way - placing your weight further foreward. Try borroewing a under saddle pad which redistributes the weight and levels it.Which stirrup bars have you as they seem to get new ones regularly! She is not as damaged as squirrel who has had all the hair rubbed of his back as I am allegedly too heavy and ride too heavily! The rubbing is due to the saddle being too long and the pony having too much movement, I reckon! I have to change to a suberpad, which they now say are recommended for natives.

[dalesponyrider]

I have been having a closer look at my saddle and this time I put my glasses on. I noticed something I hadn't noticed before. I think the panels are compressed a bit at the front, so much so that on the left hand side of the gullet there is a folded crease. I have tried to take some photos of it with my flash and I think you can just see it.



a bit closer:



On this photo you can see that the "V" is not central:



Even on the right side the panel looks compressed:



I haven't posted these on EE yet as I didn't clean my saddle before taking them. I was in a rush as I had a client due. I think I need to give it a clean and take some more before letting Heather see them! I would be grateful to hear what you guys think though. Am I imagining things?

[jec248]

I have read the above posts with great interest having recently bought a fhoenix treeless saddle and I hope that your problem is quickly solved and that you keep us all posted. A few years ago I bought a numnah with prolite pads built in at the withers and underneath the seat. ( don't know if they still do them) I used it untill I removed it after a 20 mile endurance ride and discovered two bauld patches each side of the withers where the polite pads had been. It was awful. The hairs grew back white. I covered the area with AloeVera Gel (from Rideaway)every day and never used that numnah again. I am pleased to say that the white hairs did turn back to black after a while. I use a nuumed hiwither sheepskin numnah under my fhoenix saddle.

[zeldalithgow]

Oh yes I can see Linda, do you think that the foam might be deteriorating and causing problems, if the saddle has started to tip forward then that might account for that as well - how long has this type of foam been around for? as you know ordinary foam starts to crumble after a while maybe D's sweat might acelerate that.

It's very strange that she should be getting these white hairs, I would have thought that she would have tender when you groomed her if the saddle was causing them.

[dalesponyrider]

No, she is not tender Zelda. That is interesting jec248. I wonder if the prolite is the problem? I do use a high wither numnah under the saddle though.

[carolinec]

Linda I can understand your concern but everyone on this site knows that you have always put D'S welfare as your first concern and there is honestly no need to beat yourself up about it.
You've noticed a possible problem in it's very early stages and are doing everything possible to sort it out.
I hope it's resolved soon and you can get back to just enjyoing your rides with D. You have both come so far, it's always a real pleasure to read your posts.

[dalesponyrider]

Awwww, thank you Caroline.......and everyone else who has made such nice comments.

[SuzieP]

I'll be interested to see the saddle when I visit next week, Linda. In fact if you sit on it, on D, we could have a look and see if we can find out what's going on.......if you want to....

Those pics are interesting. In the one showing the V the stitching doesn't look even at all. I wonder if it could be that it is allowing the leather to ruck up a bit, causing the folding you see. It's interesting that D isn't sore over her wither. You'd have thought that something that causes white hair to grow would be painful - but it clearly isn't. D, stoic though she is, would have told you if she was in pain. You're so tuned into her now that you'd have spotted the signs without a doubt.

As the others have said, please don't beat yourself up. Remember what you said to me when I was gutted about Bea's saddle being too wide for him........and apply it to yourself. You are a caring owner who has put her heart into looking after her pony. People are few and far between who would have stuck with D through all the difficulties you've been through. You're one in a million, Linda, and D is a lucky pony to have you for a horsemummy!! Just look how you're dealing with this now, the minute you noticed anything amiss. No pony could ask for more......

[dalesponyrider]

Thank you for your kind words Sue. Yes please, I would love to work with you next week to see if we can work out what is going on. One thing that might stop us is if EE request the saddle back! I have sent the photos to Heather and Nix by PM and asked them to forward them to Jill Shepherd who I believe has been asked to contact me. I couldn't send them direct as her inbox was full and not accepting messages! I haven't heard anything back as yet. Hope I get some advice today as I would like to ride asap as I haven't done much with D recently. I need advice from them as to whether to use a front riser pad, or something else, or not ride at all. I'm reluctant to ride as it is as I don't want to cause any more damage. I tried to lunge yesterday but the field was so wet and spongy. I'll try and get another photo today of the saddle on D from the side properly to see again if it tips forward.

[Debbie]

You have to admit, even though the concept of treeless has been around for ages, the new materials that are being used are just that ~ new. I don't think anyone knows exactly how well these materials are going to hold up as they receive rugged use.

Zelda's also got a good point in that D's sweat may have caused a change in the foam.

I was going to suggest sending in your photos of the underside as they were. The non cleaned photos may even help them moreso as they can better see the wear patterns. And that folded crease is just not right.

If I'd been quicker on the uptake with my Cashel soft saddle forming wrinkles, it might have saved me falling off like I did. But there again, this is a type of material and saddle I wasn't used to....so I do feel your piping up and showing pics is exceedingly helpful!!! I know you feel bad about D, but honestly, you've taken steps just as soon as you've noticed the problem. And the fact that you feel bad about it, only goes to show how much you truly care

[dalesponyrider]

Well Jill eventually rang me this evening and said that she and Heather had a long chat about it last night. They want me to send the saddle back on Monday for them to have a look at. In the mean time she wants me to get some fibregee, fold it over and pop it under the front of the saddle. Then I am to say if I feel any different riding in it. They think that D's conformation is sliding me to the front of the saddle and making me put the crease behind the pommel and give D too much pressure. They noticed that the stirrups were not hanging straight which is a clue that the saddle is not level. They think the saddle needs building up at the front. So I will buy some fibrewhateveritis and see what happens. The thing is, is it just D's conformation tilting the saddle forwards or is there some degeneration of the saddle? As it is an SBS I can't look for myself, I will have to take their word for it.

Anyway, they seem keen to sort it out so I will reserve judgment, wait and see what happens.